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Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by marcus, May 24, 2004.
should I use a fram oil filter or should I use a UFI
Fram or Baldwin are fine. Be sure to get the right part #
There was a batch of bad UFIs a couple of years ago that would blow and they may still be floating around. Some of us are still spooked.
Use the UFI. The fram does not have the check valves on the inside to prevent to oil from draining out after the engine is shut down. This means that the engine always has to refill to filter each time the engine is started.
A great example of ask two people Ferrari advice and get 3 answers...
I already bought the fram .
the use what you want
The Fram has the anti-drainback valve...they just don't work. Run a search on this site, and the old F-chat site, and you will find on the info to lead you to see that the UFI and Baldwin are really the only way to go. Don't worry about the bad UFI's that was three years ago...you would be hard pressed to find one of those anywhere.
I will not tell you what to do, but here are my observations.
When I purchased my 308QV it had a Fram filter on it. With the Fram filter it took 5-10 seconds for the oil pressure light to shut off. When I changed the oil I installed an UFI filter. With the UFI filter, it only took 2-3 seconds for the oil pressure light to shut off. Which one would you use?
Baldwin. Find a dealer and buy a dozen.
Here's a techy tale from today.
Before installation, the UFI and FRAM weigh almost exactly the same. When removing a FRAM after use, you will notice it only weighs very slightly more than when it was dry. The UFI however weighs double....as it still contains a lot of oil.
I removed a FRAM from a 328 today. The oil light stayed on for several seconds after each start. With a UFI, it goes out before it fires up.
You can do a search on the web for oil filter issues or analysis or internals.
Fram used to be a top brand. Today, there are tons of reports of problems with Fram filters on various cars (and motorcycles), including collapsing internals, blocking oil flow. The consensus on the web is to avoid Frams, now. During the UFI recall, a shop put a Fram on my 328, and I had the same problem described above with the long delay getting oil pressure.
But a web search also lets you know that there aren't all that many different filter manufacturers out there. Mobil-1, K&N, and even Walmart "SuperTech" filters are all made by Champ Labs. Baldwin and Hastings are made by Baldwin. Several "OEM" filters are made by Fram.
After researching filters to death for my EVO, I wound up putting a Mobil-1 filter on it, since the Mo-1 is built with a finer filter element for synth oil (and I change it twice a year). For the Ferrari (using semi-synth Agip), I use a Baldwin. The UFIs today should be okay, but the Baldwin is just as good. If you check the old archives you can find the debate over whether it's better to have a bypass valve or not (the difference between the UFI and Baldwin).
The biggest surprise is that, for conventional oil, the "cheap" Walmart "Super Tech" filters are pretty good filters, and aren't very expensive. (For the EVO, the K&N runs about $15, and the almost identical SuperTech costs $1.97.)
(champlabs) Champion Industries Filter Hotline: 1-800-882-0890 (Chi time zone)
Baldwin Filters, Kearney NE 1-800-822-5394 / 308-237-9700 7a-5p CT M-F
marcus --You've really got to give your location to get the best recommendations about F part sourcing. Although it's gotten better, with good people like FerrariUK, sometimes it can make a big difference depending on where you are located.
For me (being in the US) -- Baldwin B253 or UFI 23 162 01 (not UFI 23 162 00). The Baldwin is the better $ value if your hassle factor to obtain it isn't too high. I, too, would avoid the Fram -- too many bad ADV experiences with those.
This issue always gets confused/mangled because of the INVERTED mounting on the V8s:
Working ADV + internal standpipe = Best, shortest time to full output pressure (Baldwin, UFI)
Working ADV + no standpipe = OKish, but slightly larger time delay to full output pressure. (Mobil1, other "typical" brands that fit 308, etc.)
Bad ADV + standpipe or no standpipe = Bad, big delay to full pressurization (which is why even though the Fram has the standpipe it's ineffective)
On top of this there is a secondary (IMO) issue about an internal bypass valve -- the Baldwin has a nice "resettable" spring-type design; the Fram, a cheaper one-time deformable design; I'm not sure what's in the UFI, but IMO this is really only an issue in situations where there's a risk that enough debris can accumulate to block the filter element -- just doesn't happen on road cars IMO so not a big decision factor.
I would vote for either Baldwin or a new UFI filter. I had a Fram in my car when i bought it, the oil pressure took for ever to come up, i changed it real fast!
Either a Marine dealer or a Truck place would carry the Baldwin oil filters, i hear they are the best, i am planning on buying a bunch myself.
Please, check this thread. I know its not about MANN but...
or short version:
I have changed from FRAM to UFI oil filter now.
Engine off for 24 h: 7,3 s before oil pressure light goes off, needle goes to 3,5 bar.
30 minutes off: 4,5 s
5 s minutes off: Less than a second
Engine 24 h off: 3,3 s before oil pressure light goes off
My mechanic says that FRAM is out of his shop now.
He didn't know FRAM was that bad.
This started it:
My 328 takes about 5 second to build up oil pressure from cold. I.e from ignition on until the oil pressure lamp goes off.
I have a feeling that it took less than that before my last oil filter change. Do I have a oil filter problem or something else? Is it normal with 5 second?
Do also check this tread
Does anyone know where I can purchase UFI oil filters for my 328 in the UK?
I just received my 6-pack of Baldwin filters, ~$11 each. On-line ordering, shipped next day, got them in 4 days.
Just ordered my 6 today..... Great price, i think for buying 6 it was about $10 per filter....
Many years ago, I ran a shop in upstate NY, specializing in Ferrari, ALFA and FIAT. I used ONLY Baldwin and Wix filters unless the customer specified otherwise, in writing.
What convinced me was my supplier, OIL FILTER SERVICE. They had a display of every U.S. made filter, cut open such that the customer could see how they were made and make his/her own choice. Two filters were so far superior to the rest that it wasn't even a contest: Baldwin and Wix. I would not hesitate to use either - I used the Baldwin B-253 on the Ferraris as Wix did not have an equivalent at the time. They might now, however.
A customer brought me a Testarossa for an oil change - when I removed the filter, it RATTLED! Turns out, the entire center section/filter medium had collapsed. All the oil had been circulating unfiltered - I can't recall the brand name but the filter was on the car when he purchased it from a Ferrari dealer.
These are just my personal experiences - to this day, I still use only Baldwin or Wix. Bob
When I had a major service done at WWOC they used a Fram. I have used Fram and have had no oil presure issues in my 308QV. I have heard good things about Baldwin and will probably try one next change. IMO I don't believe a car that sits longer than a week will still have oil in the filter regardless of the type of filter used.
I use a Baldwin on mine because of the report I got from a shop owner that dissected a Fram. He said it was very poorly built and had just the minimum filtering medium. He refuses to use ANY Fram products. He recommends NAPA (WIX) filters for general use. I will not use the WIX oil filter on my 308 for the reasons below.
I had the local NAPA auto parts store look up a Fram
2804-1 and the application was for an Allison 5-speed automatic transmission!
A warning about using 'other' filters on your car;
I found a total 5 other filters that would physically fit on my 308. One was the WIX (NAPA Gold). 51515
None had stand pipes.
Consider the max oil pressure on most passenger car engines does NOT exceed 60 psi at maximum RPM's. Most filters are designed to these parameters.
The max oil pressure in a 308 can be as high as 92 psi.
Because of this I would hesitate to use ANY filter that did NOT meet that pressure specification. Therefore it's Baldwin for me, 10.00 at the Chevron bulk supplier in town.
Actually, this is a GOOD thing! Pressures and temps in the HD automatics is much higher than you will experience in your car.
The local place that I get my Baldwin 253s from keeps them specifically for HD truck transmissions. He wasn't aware that they fit cars or pickups.
My thoughts exactly!
I asked my Chevron jobber what the Baldwin 253 applications were and his book said Ferrari and one other marque as well, German I think. I will ask again when I go down to buy race gas.
I was surprised when I ordered a couple of oil filters from Ferrari of Atlanta for my 308QV a couple of years ago and they sent me Frams. I called to complain, as I had expected UFIs, but they told me that's what they use when the don't have UFIs available, and that's what they were using at the time for oil changes on Ferraris in their shop!
I've still got them sitting in a box. I use either UFI or Baldwins.
If it was THREE years ago, that would have been during the height of the UFI recall, and I beleive FNA was recommending dealers to use the Fram, temporarily.....
Time to "Ebay" those Frams....
Is there a Baldwin filter for a 355?