From the dawn of the U.S. jet age

Would love to have flown the 880 or 990. I understand they were terrifically fast cruising aircraft. But at the time I may have sided with you and opted for the 727. As far as crying over spilled milk... Seems that's all I do lately, LOL

Sent from my VS995 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Sounds like a lot of extra weight. Braniff had two types of 727 cargos. One with the roller balls firmly attached in the floor, and another where the roller ball system was able to be taken out. I believe this saved something like 4000 pounds?? It's been so long ago now I'm not sure what the weight saving was. I think that was called the QC model. I know that doesn't pertain to the DC 8 at all but having flown DCH in cargo configuration for fine air out of Miami, we just opted for the roller ball system on the floor. Let me know if you find out something different I would be interested to hear

Sent from my VS995 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Not quite... Elvis' "Lisa Marie" is still in existence. It's apparently the only surviving complete 880

 

I used to be a bar over in Dallas called The Fly Boy. Might still be there I don't know but back in the 70s when I was taking some training with braniff, the bar was a local pilot hang out for braniff and American pilots and stews. The front of the bar had a hole in the wall and a DC-3 cockpit was fully accessible. Love to know what happened with that place

Sent from my VS995 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Good point. There are several complete surviving 990s, as well, although none are airworthy (or remotely close).

 

I had some Convair drawings of the 880 and 990 that I have since donated. Some really goofy engineering in spots, like the VEE shaped entry doors that were narrow at the foot and wider at the top. Fast but not profitable.

 

Bob... has my book arrived yet?

Sent from my VS995 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Both too small for the market, and very thirsty...

 

Convair 880. Pretty cool video. Sadly the Captain at 1:47 was killed shortly after in an 880 training accident in Atlanta

 

Didn't Glenn Turner have several? I thought he wanted to make his own little airline and had them based in Sanford, at the old Naval Air Station.

 

Thanks!

 

I'm in the process of watching PAN AM, the TV series again... too bad it was cancelled... good show.

 

When I first saw this thread, I thought it was going to be about the P-59.

 

Yeah, those were the days! Now the airlines are not too much more than cattle cars. One bright star on the horizon is Ibis Airlines, out of Florida. They are looking for investors now but their business plan is to have Exquisite food at very low prices using a disruptive business model. Maybe to some degree we will have the elegance and grace of those yesterdays still with us with this carrier when they get off the ground. Either way I'm with you

Sent from my VS995 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Having been with the FAA for a number of years and serving at a CMO as a Supervisor, or Frontline Manager as they are now called, I was on the front line of many of these initial meetings between the FAA certificate team, myself, and a new Airline management team, all meeting for the first time. It got to a point where I could almost tell within the first 15 or 20 minutes whether or not this company was actually going to make it, based on the seriousness and how "together" the management team was. It's extraordinary how much good money and how many good business plans were absolutely flushed down the toilet simply because the management had no idea about what to do.

Initial certification of an airline in particular is extraordinarily difficult and... should I say "hoop laden" with numerous gates to jump through. You need to have a management team of "wartime consiglieres", to paraphrase The Godfather, who understand what is needed to get the airline initially certified and then running for the first couple of years . Too often they have people who either are completely oblivious to the job ahead of them or have actually performed the same job but in an airline which was operating normally for many years when they were plugged into it. They think..." well I've done this job for 5 or 10 years I know what's going on"... but it is a completely different environment when you are a start-up Airline. This is where a lot of companies separate the wheat from the chaff.

If you want to see an eye-opening list, Google the airlines that have gone out of business over the years. It is absolutely jaw dropping and a real walk down Memory Lane, giving you a true appreciation for what it takes to make it in today's Aviation environment and those companies who fell by the wayside attempting to do it.

Sent from my VS995 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Thanks... I'll be sure to look them up as soon as I finish Bob Parks book sometime this week. Again I appreciate the heads-up on it.

It really goes to show that many airlines also try to get into business using the same business model that companies used back in the 60s and 70s. While those might have worked back then, using that approach in today's ever-changing market could be financial suicide. I am absolutely convinced, and I have to be careful, since I don't want to push this on this site, but Ibis is truly one to look at. Their business model is so out of the box that it's unbelievable. I hold no position with them, so I don't feel I'm pushing an agenda, but when you read on their site how they plan on subsidizing their income it is nothing more than...truly thinking outside of the box. 'Nuff said.

Sent from my VS995 using FerrariChat.com mobile app