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Front Wheel Bearing

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Rapalyea, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    A year ago my local wrench opined the right front bearing seemed iffy. I took the tire off and the only thing I noticed was a small 'tink tink' sound as I revolved the brake disc back and forth. So I ordered a new bearing for my 1986 3.2 and put it onto the shelf till the time came for some accumulated improvements I had planned. I forget where I ordered the bearomgs, but was told at the time to get both available grease seals since the seal had been changed sometime during the model year and it is not known exactly when that took place. But Wait. There is More!

    My local wrench told me the parts sent did not even REMOTELY resembled what was actually in the car! The bearing in the car had the diameter of a small tea tray and included about eight marble sized ball bearings. Which promptly all fell out onto the ground. And apparently getting them back in required some supernatural incantation, holy water, and perhaps a secret pact with Satan himself. Local wrench would not even take the other one off for re-greasing.

    Wrench said the bearings were fine but were dry and he was both able to get the loose ones back in and was able to grease the other without taking it out of the car. Said it was clearly designed to absorb side loads and looked like it could have been something more appropriate to a giant earth mover.

    Does any one have even the most fanciful comment on this strange state of affairs?
     
  2. FCnew

    FCnew Formula Junior

    May 5, 2015
    671
    Hong Kong / Canada
    Full Name:
    Jonathan
    .

    I remember seeing a youtube video on the bearing rebuilt...
    yea, you need to twist and turn in the correct secret Da Vinci code sequence to get the marbles in.


    (the vid was possibly made by one of the FChatter here, not too sure anymore due to old age).
     
  3. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    There are a couple threads on this. I think they may be in the 3X8 section. I took mine out and added grease. They are very expensive so treat them nicely until it is known they cannot be put back together. Taper roller bearings were used on earlier models I think, we have the "dozer" style as your wrench said.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/261685-need-help-wheel-bearing-experts.html?highlight=328+front+wheel+bearings

    Here is a start. I just search 328 front wheel bearing. Good luck.
     
  4. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
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    David Rapalyea alias
    Thanks guys. I am surprised my parts source did not know this. Its been so long since I bought and put them on the shelf its to late for a return. However, my wrench was very clear the old ones need to be re-lubed. Specifically, the grease gets a bit waxy, pushed out to the sides and does not recycle into the races.

    Given their inherent robust nature they may not fail. I have not heard of any that have actually failed. But given their expense I would figure out a way to grease them without getting them out of the races and rolling all over the floor. My wrench said he re-lubed the other front bearing without disassemble but did not elaborate. He was adamant, however, the only way he would ever take one appart again is if a new one cost $750, which is what I sort of remember, he might do it for $500. Or some such.

    He also cautioned that if one of these bearings ever failed and froze up it might twist the entire suspension off the car on that side.
     
  5. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    May 25, 2013
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  6. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    #6 PV Dirk, Sep 22, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 16, 2004
    2,733
    MA
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    Ron Frohock
    I had a failure at the end of last season. It made a humming noise while driving and a slight vibration when steering in one direction.
    I tried to go the inexpensive route and purchased a non-Ferrari bearing from a supplier in Germany only to find that it was not a direct replacement as it was advertised. There was an issue with a rubber dust guard if I recall correctly. My mechanic said no way!
    Anyways, I sent it back, informed the seller that it was not as advertised and got a full refund, expecting that the seller, a well known operation, would adjust their description on their web page. Well, that didn't happen.... They are still selling the parts as direct replacements.
    Now, if there are direct replacements then that is great and I wish I had known prior to buying a genuine Ferrari OEM part for the cost of more than $600.00.
     
  8. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 16, 2004
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    I should also mention that my mechanic took the other one out and put it in with new grease.
     
  9. Wade

    Wade Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    27,511
    East Central, FL
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    Wade O.
    #9 Wade, Sep 22, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,144
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    They do fail, getting to be quite common actually. When they do they just get noisy. Hardest part of disassembly, cleaning and relubing is removing the hub/axle/bearing assembly from the car. Removing the bearing from the hub is quite easy, disassembly/reassembly of the the bearing can be done blindfolded.

    Better to service the old ones. The replacements are not nearly the quality of the originals.
     
  11. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
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    David Rapalyea alias
    The Old Stand By

    Grease the damned things every fifteen years whether they need it or not! Both fronts have been re greased, and all four CV joints have been replaced. Good for the rest of my natural life. As for these CV joints they can be re greased but, according to my wrench, THAT is not the issue. The issue on my car is the eight (8?) hexbolts on each of two sides of all four joints can be a serious problem.

    My wrench was about apoplectic when his professional hex wrench broke! His worry was not the broken hex wrench, but the possibility of rounding of the inside of the hex bolt itself. I think he was sweating bullets. Soaking them for days in Liquid Wrench. It worked out mostly fine, except the simple CV rubber boot clamps were seriously duffus. No way to easily tighten them. He invented a device to pre-clamp the boot, then install the unit provided with the joint.

    He actually likes to do this stuff. He is very good at solving all sorts of Italian idiosyncrasies, or the idiosyncrasies of parts suppliers, and I think he likes the challenge. My car is the only Ferrari he has ever worked on and very much encourages me to keep driving it. Not for the money he might make (I pay him well but nothing like Atlanta) but he really likes to do the stuff. And likes the fact I actually DRIVE the car.

    Weirdly, he seems to think I would be a good candidate for a fully restored 1938 Chevrolet sedan, full stock, not hot rod, that he inherited from a fanatic older guy. So fanatic of course, that it is five times better then show room. I will look at it, maybe drive it. But hell. I am seriously automotively up to my adams apple right now.
     
  12. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
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    David Rapalyea alias
    The little brass centering pieces in the lower photo look to me like .22 rifle rounds? Is that possible?
     
  13. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    I think you are seeing the bolts that hold it in place. Sitting on the ground?
     
  14. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    I'm going to throw some hear say on top of this. When I first purchased my car the wheel bearings were the hot topic here, numerous threads. I was worried and talked to my tech. He suggested they do fail but he had never seen one fail on a car that was driven regularly. (but today, how many of us can say that?) For what it's worth. In the end we all need to make our own decisions. I didn't do a full tear down on my bearings. I had no problems with my bearings but while I was in there I cleaned them as best I could and added grease. The picture you see above is as far as I went as I couldn't afford to cause any damage at the time. Please don't follow me as any authority. In the end I don't know if I did a good thing or not.

    It may be time for a birdman style teardown and relube for all our benefit. Anyone, anyone?
     
  15. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,237
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    David Lind
    If each one of us Mondial owners has to pay $600 per side for front wheel bearings, I desperately hope there's lubrication ... for us, not necessarily the bearings!
     
  16. FCnew

    FCnew Formula Junior

    May 5, 2015
    671
    Hong Kong / Canada
    Full Name:
    Jonathan
    .

    Have you seen the wheel bearings of today's cars?

    They are about half the diameter (ie a quarter size), and can handle 5,000 lbs each.


    The Mondial share the same bearings with her V12 brothers.
    These bearings are built for trucks; ie they are way oversized for a ~3,000 lb sports car.
    If they are properly lubricated, they should last forever.
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Not at all. They were designed for a Citroen.
    A ball bearing has very little surface area compared to a roller bearing so while it looks huge, in reality it isn't.
     
  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,144
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    Being driven regularly has a positive influence on the life of a wheel bearing?

    That's a good one.
     
  19. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    #19 MvT, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
    I think what Dirk is trying to say that a car needs to be driven to stay in shape, just like us humans. Not driving your car (regularly) or only short drive will lead eventually to issues. Grease will simply get older faster and eventually cloth inside your bearing. if you are lucky the seal dries out and sand gets in, which is quite impossible for the front bearing of a Mondial, but water can come in and I guess it is known what rust can do to a bearing.

    I got my Mondial at 30k miles and it was in no condition to drive across country it could move and make a grawl, but that was about it. It's like taking an elderly without proper preparation for a marathon. I knew in the back of my mind to do the bearings, but time I didn't find and went off with the elderly to Italy hoping for the best. It was not the best choice ;)

    Got a TR bearing from a Ferrari owner in France who sold his TR and still had a spear on the shelf. in web shops they all sell you the Citroen bearing without saying and you pay more then you should i'm afraid. If you want OEM go to the F dealer, but you will pay the price. I just got lucky thanks to bartzagato


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJLechMnB9A[/ame]
     
  20. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    These are weird bearings for us Yankees. We have had tapered roller bearings on everything since WWII. Probably ealier. The last ones I bought cost something like $6? And I have driven my Z-28 and Mark VII with such bearings all over the mountains for hundreds of thousands of miles. Never had one go bad.

    However, they are so inexpensive that whenever I change a brake rotor I simply order the bearing. The rotors come with the races already installed. However, the F bearings will last almost forever if we just lube them every 15 years whether they need it or not.
     

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