fuel flow - and cheat

I just think it's super confusing. As well as the harvesting energy thing. Bring back the NAs, its' easier to explain to new fans.

 

The implication from "fuel pressure must be constant", is that fuel is getting packed in unused on the other end of the sensor - raising pressure.

When the FIA declared with Ricci's podium getting taken away - its the sensor, not the actual rate that determines legality, any system playing with the sensor should still be "legal".

 

What a bloody bore F1 has become.

 

Fair enough. I beg to differ..... Outside of the crap sound at least.

'We' may not like it, but it's the first time in decades they're actually pushing the technological envelope. Way less D/F, wooden tires and 30% less fuel and they're still pretty much going the same speed as before.

As an engineering exercise, a large part of its appeal to me, these things are truly phenomenal. The 'average' (whatever that may be) fan may not know brake-by-wire from a hole in the wall, but many do, and what they're doing here, along with the MGU's and packaging thereof I find fascinating, not at all boring.

I freely admit I had to Wiki that one!

In short, it's their attempt to eliminate this 'loophole' that we're discussing..... It may only yield a *tiny* edge, but that's all they need to find in most cases.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Not a bore? F1 should be about competition. Any doubt on who the world champion will be? Runner up? Constructors championship? The only drama will be to see if any other teams will win one of the remaining races. Oh yeah, and the cars sound crappy.

 

You look at the past with very selective glasses.

Jackie Stewart won the Spanish Grand Prix in 1969 with a lead of two laps over second place.

Alain Prost got 7 poles in a row in 1993

Ascari won all but one points paying GP' to take a championship. He won the next three races consecutively in the next season on top of that.

Check out lap speeds for the Lotus 49 vs its competition.

It was almost impossible to touch the Mclaren's of Prost and Sena. After their fracus in Suzuka, Senna lost a lot of time getting back on the track, drove with a broken front nose, came to pits, changed a front wing, and won the race. From Senna's Mclaren, to the next manufacturer on the grid, was a >2s gap in quali. Yeah, some competition in the good ole days, when a race was won by a car more than two seconds faster, not like today when its....uh wait, two seconds faster.

 

I said nothing about the past or "the good ole days". Thank you for the recitation.

 

Look how fast that ferrari is they are getting max fuel pressure. This is the new f1 fuel pressure really fuel pressure

 

I see where you're coming from, and you're of course correct, but now I'm confused what we're talking about:

1) What you are talking about: Cheating by increasing instantaneous fuel flow above the allowed maximum, but with a correct reading of the overall fuel flow. Ie, due to storing fuel in elastic tubes downstream of the sensor, they momentarily push more fuel in the engine, but the overall measured fuel amount is correct.

2) What I am talking about: Cheating by devising a method to push more fuel through than the sensor can measure.

3) Both

 

What you're talking about is the quantization error. They're sampling the fuel flow rate with 1kHz, that should be fast enough to properly sample the signal and avoid the effect you illustrated.

What the sensor sends out in its CAN message is the final reading, it's not relevant how it is scaled or whether it's processed in the sensor or in the ECU.

I did try to setup a small simulation, but it turns out that modeling elastic tubes is quite challenging. If you don't have the properties of the actual tube material used in the car you can get any kind of result even if you use a range of plausible parameters.

 

Is the signal filtering part of the strategy to close the loophole? I don't think so. What the filter is supposed to do is to remove signal noise. They designed it to remove any frequency component >25Hz from the signal. Alas, this effects not only noise, but also all 'real' data with higher dynamics. This is where I would see the loophole.

The demand of the fuel pressure downstream of the sensor to remain constant eliminates dynamic flow effects like I suggested as well as Igor Ound's idea.

 

1) was happening prior to China and has been since made likely impossible with further sensors downstream

2) is probably what they were doing in Spain