Fuel leak at accelerator pump cover. 1978 GTS. Please help. | FerrariChat

Fuel leak at accelerator pump cover. 1978 GTS. Please help.

Discussion in '308/328' started by Dane, Jun 9, 2022.

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  1. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    Smart people….please help. I found a fuel leak at the accelerator pump cover on the 1-2 carburetor. Why would I have a leak from here?

    I’ve searched so not to waste time with a new thread. Any thoughts are certainly appreciated. Dane
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  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,785
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Jun 9, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2022
    The diaphragm could be broken/split, or where the diaphragm material serves as the gasket could be leaking. Is it leaking out the edge (maybe tightening the screws would help), or leaking out where the lever goes in to actuate it (needs new diaphragm)? See Fig 13.4 on page 176 of the Haynes Weber Manual.
     
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  3. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula 3
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    Aug 26, 2004
    1,122
    Nipomo, CA
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    Richard
    Need to replace the accelerator pump.
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
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    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    I most certainly respect and appreciate your opinion, Steve. Thank you.
    Thank you, Richard

    I’m thankful for each of your prompt replies and knowledge.
     
  5. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula 3
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    I would replace all 4 of them.
     
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  6. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula 3
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    #6 lm2504me, Jun 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
    If stored for a long time without starting engine, the fuel in the accelerator pump dries out and rubber becomes like plastic. Then when you operate the throttle, cracks in the rubber diaphragm.
    I run my 308 at least once a week to full operating temperature. I drive it.
     
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  7. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    Thank you for the continued help, Richard. I am habitual about running her at least every week even while secure on the stands.

    I learned this morning that accessing that accelerator pump on the 1-2 carburetor is more difficult at least for my feeble skills.

    My hands have taken a beating the last couple of days as I felt for additional leaks!
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  8. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula 3
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    Aug 26, 2004
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    I always wear Nitrile Gloves or Mechanic gloves when working on the 308.
    No gashes, cuts, or exposure to gasoline, grease, coolant, or oil.
     
  9. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    I was wearing thin rubber gloves, but I couldn’t feel the fluid to be 100% certain. So…off they went.
     
  10. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    Another ignorant question….Would this leak from the accelerator pump cause the engine to suddenly die at anything above idle? My hope is to kill two big birds with one stone. Leak can clearly be seen in this latest photo…so glad I found this! Don’t you worry mia cara 308, I’ll get you healthy, again. We have too much history.
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  11. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula 3
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  12. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula 3
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    Are you using the stock .55 idle jets?
    If so, replace with .65 idle jets.
    Today’s gas is not the same gas in the 70’s.

    Ignition timing all good?
     
  13. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    Carbs were synched in 2019 and 2k miles ago.

    I changed from .50 idle jets to .55s. I was mocked last week by a local professional for changing. He told me to go back to the 0.50s, and he asked where I received the idea to change. I said, “Ferrari Chat. Lots of smart folks there.” Response was, “Yeah, I know about them…go back to the 0.50s.” I asked about the change in fuel to modern standards. The response was not in agreement.

    I trust the knowledge and experience here. I’ll go to 0.65s.

    I have not touched the ignition. I am hoping to eliminate possible suspects.

    Thank you for your continued help, Richard.
     
  14. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula 3
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    Owner Manual shows .55.
    I was able to get very good combustion with .65 and opening idle mixture screws to 3.75 turns.
    Idles at 950 rpm.
     
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  15. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    440
    Chatsworth, CA
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    Barry Leavengood
    Leak probably caused by old cracked accelerator pump diaphragm. If you look at the design it appears it would leak not only from an edge crack but also a crack in the body of the diaphragm. Its been my experience, however, that they last and last. I changed mine in 1982 and they still work fine even though the car sat for 18 years or so without ever being moved or started. I run .60 idle (.55 is stock) and 130 mains (125 is stock) and it runs great on CA gas. And yes the carbs are a PITA to work on while on the car for anything other than changing jets and float adjustments. I just take mine off to do any major work. They can also leak from the lead plugs located in various places in the carb body. I have managed to stop all the plug leaks by re-pinging them. I also had an annoying leak on the drivers side front (of course) choke housing which had a burr for some reason that was causing the leak. Mine sill have all the original 1978 gaskets and spacers along with the 1982 accelerator pump diaphragms and have no leaks or gas stains.
     
  16. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    Thank you for the input.

    I need to simply look at the diaphragm. Until then, I’m just estimating. Removing that 1-2 carburetor for my first time has been a bit of a challenge; I need a run to the hardware store for a much shorter wrench to access that left forward nut.

    Today, I noticed the 1-2 jet was clogged so I cleaned all of them to be sure. I don’t know to what extent this has caused me problems. We’ll see after the leak is fixed.

    My OM also states 0.55 stock idle. I replaced 0.50 idles with 0.55; it appears the increase was not enough. My main jets, ironically, are 140s.
     
  17. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
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    Dane
    I have a couple of bent 13mm open end wrenches I use to facilitate removing the carbs. One is bend for the right offset while the other is for the left. With these I can remove any one of the four with no problem. And yes for the purists one of the wrenches is part of the original tool kit.

    Barry

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  18. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    440
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    Dane
    A plugged or restricted idle jet will cause the cylinder to drop out at idle. You can get all the jets out for inspection or changing without removing the carbs. If you are having trouble with the idle I would check the idle jets to insure they are clean. 140 main jets sounds pretty rich to me. I also run the next size up squinters (accelerator pump nozzles). As I believe it they give crisper throttle response. Probably a carry over from my drag racing days. There are many threads on setting up and syncing the carbs. Just remember there are no absolutes. So don't worry if your stuff doesn't exactly match the parameters espoused in the various threads. For example I don't think mine would even idle with .40 idle jets so you must have different idle screws (I understand there are several with different tapers) then I do. Even with .55 idle jets my idle screws a 4 to 4 1/2 turns out. Anything less and the cylinder drops. One thing I have discovered via lots of messing around is its best to set the final idle mixture after a long enough drive to get everything hot and normalized. If I set mine after bringing it up to temp in the garage it will always change a bit if I reset it after a drive.
     
  19. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    Awesome idea, Barry! Thank you! I will keep the originals as is, but I’ll look to modify another tomorrow; I took the day away from the F Car….reattack tomorrow.


    I’ve cleaned each idle jet (0.55), accelerator pump nozzle, and main jet. My car is idling nice now (1100 RPM) at between 3 turns to 3 1/2 turns depending on idle screw though I do understand the nice idle doesn’t mean much.

    That leak is my immediate concern so I’ll get that sorted and then start exonerating possible suspects for the sudden and unpredictable engine power failures.

    Thank you for your continued help, Barry.
     
  20. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    440
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    Dane
    Your welcome. I must have missed the part about power loss failures. Keep in mind that the carbed 308s are really simple even though I had a hell of a time with an aftermarket electronic ignition (installation error). If you describe the power failure I'm sure someone on this board can help. This site along with Birdman's is my bible.

    Barry
     
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  21. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    You’re a gentleman, Barry. Today, I enlisted the service of a true professional as she/my 308 needs attention in other areas. This person knows his craft. With permission, I’ll post my experience once all is complete.
     

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