Fuel pump not working when safety switch connected | FerrariChat

Fuel pump not working when safety switch connected

Discussion in '308/328' started by SE328, Jan 22, 2024.

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  1. SE328

    SE328 Rookie

    Jul 25, 2019
    9
    Munich / germany
    Full Name:
    Stephan Eicher
    Dear all,
    on my 1985 308 QV the fuel pump only works when I pull the safety switch.
    I checked the fuse and relay of the fuel pump but both are fine.
    So the only way I can get the car running is by pulling the safety switch.
    Any idea what could cause that?
    As I understand the safety switch turns off my fuel pump for any reason - correct?
    And when i pull it it lets the fuel pump work without "safety"
    But thats not how its supposed to be.
    Anyone else had this problem and fixed it?
    Thanks for your help.
    Stephan
     
  2. Michael DB

    Michael DB Karting

    Dec 22, 2023
    213
    UK
    Full Name:
    Michael D Beswick
    Curious. I’m a very new owner of a 85 QV (UK spec) -where is this safety switch?
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,563
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Can also be caused by a bad relay. There are two relays associated with the fuel pump operation: the ...113 fuel pump relay (which is OK since you report things work with the safety switch unplugged) and a ...101 relay (Relay F - called the "start electro-valve control relay" in the euro QV OM) that controls the fuel pump relay depending on the state of the safety switch and if the starter motor is cranking. Just "borrow" another ...101 relay for a test (say, from a headlight function), and see if putting another/different ...101 relay in the Relay F position helps, or not.
     
    Saabguy likes this.
  4. SE328

    SE328 Rookie

    Jul 25, 2019
    9
    Munich / germany
    Full Name:
    Stephan Eicher
    Michael DB likes this.
  5. SE328

    SE328 Rookie

    Jul 25, 2019
    9
    Munich / germany
    Full Name:
    Stephan Eicher
    I tried that already and switched the relays - they all work.
    Found some more info - either its corroded contacts from the plug or the contact from the switch itself inside the air box is dirty.
    I will try both when temperatures get more comfortable to work in the garage.... ;)
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,563
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    You can check the unplugged safety switch resistance:
    When engine not running (airflow plate not deflected) = should be 0 Ohms (or just a few Ohms) between the two terminals.
    When the engine is running (airflow plate deflected) = should be infinite Ohms between the two terminals.
    But the more typical failure is getting infinite Ohms (like an unplugged safety switch) so the engine should always start and run in that case.

    When you try starting (with the safety switch plugged in), does it:

    1. just crank and never fire at all,
    or
    2. does it fire up, but die when you release the key to run?
     
  7. SE328

    SE328 Rookie

    Jul 25, 2019
    9
    Munich / germany
    Full Name:
    Stephan Eicher
    Thanks for the info. Will meter that.
    With the safety switch connected it cranks but doesn´t fire up
     
  8. Michael DB

    Michael DB Karting

    Dec 22, 2023
    213
    UK
    Full Name:
    Michael D Beswick
    Thanks I've found it. No mention of it in either my handbook or my QV workshop manual (which shows nothing abut the fuel system). I did find it in the Mondial WSM you kindly linked to.- Buried in a test procedure for checking the fuel pump works!
     
  9. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,597
    California SF bay area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    You can also test with air cleaner off, safety switch connected, ignition switch on then press down on the air pate and fuel pump should run.
     
  10. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,771
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    he said another pic of the safety switch like Stephan,s pic.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Michael DB likes this.
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,563
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Thanks for posting that pic. I like it also showing the "rubber plug with a wire handle" for blocking the idle mixture screw access hole. Much better than the stock plastic anti-tamper cap (which is often lost/missing). Where did you source it? RockAuto, Volvo, somewhere else?
     
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  12. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,771
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    You’re welcome Steve, this is where I got them from: https://store.delorean.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=102392a
    I remember my old VW Golf had one I just don’t know the P/N for VW.
     
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  13. Michael DB

    Michael DB Karting

    Dec 22, 2023
    213
    UK
    Full Name:
    Michael D Beswick
    Thanks as it also shows the idle mixture screw location. (Thread Emissions Test results)
     
    miketuason likes this.
  14. slfan

    slfan Karting

    Apr 26, 2010
    60
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    Hello,

    I am having the same issue with my 1986 328 GTS and I would
    Ike to replace the blue AFM switch. I searched the Ricambi America parts diagram and cannot find it ( and the part number for the blue switch). Would anybody have the part number for this switch.

    This would greatly be appreciated.

    Thank you,
    Angel
     
  15. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,563
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #15 Steve Magnusson, Aug 6, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2024
    The blue AFM switch is considered part of the AFM unit, and doesn't have its own part number (and it's really a bunch of different parts working together rather than a self-contained switch assembly -- see the Mondial8/QV WSM for a drawing of how it works). Maybe if a F parts dismantler (or another marque dismantler that also uses Bosch CIS) has an AFM unit with some other problem (like a broken airflow flap pivot mechanism), you could get the various parts that you might need -- just a thought...
     
    slfan likes this.
  16. slfan

    slfan Karting

    Apr 26, 2010
    60
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    Good evening Steve,

    Thank you for the explanation and guidance.

    Best regards,
    Angel
     

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