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Fuel System Cleaners?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by davehelms, Jul 4, 2004.

  1. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Dave Helms
    I am yet to find the cause behind this, but fairly sure bet it was a fuel additive. One of the pics shows what the rubber is supposed to look like, the rest are the result of ? being in the fuel.
    Subject is a 99 550, and both fuel pumps were the same condition.
    More to follow,
    Dave
     
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  3. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
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    THE Birdman
    Where's the pics???
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,087
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    Are the rubber parts trying to revert to crude oil? If so I have been seeing it in California for a few years. It's a result of the fuel additives we have had for a few years (oxygenates) in the rat urine they have been passing off as gasoline. I am not aware of the gas situation in Colorado but maybe you are just catching up with us on the left coast. It seems to be worst on cars that are driven little with low quantities of fuel left in tank. If anyone has a gray market F40 with the fuel bladders I would be very concerned.
    PS, It has a nasty habit of clogging everything in the fuel system.
     
  5. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    Dave: Swepco 503 is great stuff. It will not cause aforementioned problems.

    --Dan
     
  6. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Dave Helms
    I sent them to Brian Stradale to help me post. Anyone else that can help with posting pics?
    Dave
     
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  8. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
  9. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    Dave's Pictures:

    --Dan
     
  10. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Dave Helms
    Thanks Dan.
     
  11. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    My pleasure. I'm amazed at what came out of there!!!

    --Dan
     
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  13. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Dave Helms
    Agreed. Now consider is all the rubber in the FI system is the same, the regulators, injectors, etc..... will all need replacing. In the fuel tank everything that is rubber is crumbling. The silicone orings are the only thing not effected.
    Dave
     
  14. David512

    David512 Formula 3

    Dec 15, 2003
    1,647
    Northern California
    Is this more true of MTBE than ethanol? Are there other oxygenates in gasoline?

    Anthing to do that would protect against this corrosion>

    What's Swepco 503 supposed to do?

    I can PM if this thread is too stale.

    David
     
  15. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Dave Helms
    David,
    I am yet to figure out what was being used in this 550. I have a chemist trying to pull out any clues as to what might have been used. I highly doubt that it was ethanol or MTBE, as most cars are subjected to these, and it is the first failure of this magnitude I have seen. The failure is only with the rubber boot holding the pump screen, and did not have any effect on any other o-rings or seals in the fuel system. I highly suspect it was a fuel additive that was added after the pump.
    Dave
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,087
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    To Dave and David. It's not the first or worst I've seen. I should correct myself, it may not be the oxygenates, it may only be something added coincident with them. I never saw it before Ca. went to year round reformulated gas. As you may know many states have gone to different flavors of reformulation. In Ca. we have our own and Co. may have it's own too. All I know for sure is that our gas has a very different smell now and in the vehicles that I have seen the problem had the same things in common. #1 infrequent driving, #2 low fuel in tank, #3 very concentrated smell of the nature I have come to associate with the new gas. It may be that after sitting for some period with the very low level of fuel that some lighter elements of the fuel go to a vapor in all the air space in the tank leaving a concentrated, destructive formula the rubber is immersed in. Just my opinion based on observation.
     
  17. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Dave Helms

    Sure sounds like a good explanation. When the chemist is finished I will track down the CA fuel break down and see if it matches.
    The fuel we have here is NON-flamable rabbit p*ss to start with, then expect an engine to fire it at 9000 ft!
    Thanks for your ideas, we will be talking when the report is in.
    Dave
     
  18. modena001

    modena001 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2004
    32
    Seattle
    Hi guys, I just had my fuel pumps replaced in my 97 550. Exact same problem. Totally broken down. Have you guys figured out whats causing the problem.

    Regards
    Brad
     
  19. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,248
    USA
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    Hugh G. Rection
    With the poor quality of some parts on Ferraris, it would not surprise me if the problem lies in the quality of components used in the fuel pump, rather than an issue with the gas or additives.
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,087
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall

    Dave Helms is working on it and I have not heard of any progress. Just for my own data base, how many miles on your car, do you drive it regularly or infrequently? And by any chance if infrequent do you park it very low on fuel or full? Thanks in advance for any info you can provide, I'm sure Dave will let us know when he has an update.
     
  21. modena001

    modena001 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2004
    32
    Seattle
    I just bought the car. It only had 8300 miles when I purchased the car. It was driven very little and sat for long periods based on the service records. Very dissapointing problem. I begs the question what else is deteriorating.

    Regards,
    Brad
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,087
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    That supports the assertion that cars are better off being driven on a regular basis. For what it's worth this is a problem I have only witnessed on cars that sit for long periods. Also it is a problem, by my experience anyway that only affects the rubber in the tank. Sadly however, again in my experience the debris can sometimes make it past the filters and the consequences can be very costly. I hope Dave's investigation will give us some useful information that will lead to a way to deal with it. It is my opinion that the misguided efforts of enviornmentalism caused this and I don't believe the government will ever let us go back to real gasoline.
     

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