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Fuel tank removal - 308

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by dave80gtsi, Nov 24, 2003.

  1. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Dave Meredith
    Planning out the winter's R&R work. It certainly seems to me that the removal of the right side fuel tank would aid in access to the forward cam belt area.

    Does anyone know whether or not this fuel tank can be removed without the need to dismantle the rear suspension? In other words, is there sufficient space in the wheel well to extract this tank from the car with the control arms / hubs / springs and struts etc. left intact?
     
  2. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Just did mine this past weekend. You have to remove the brake calliper, the 2 locating pins on the rotor then remove the rotor. One of the tank hold down bolts is a bit difficult to get to.
     
  3. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
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    You can do it without removing the caliper/rotor but you must position just right to get it out. I removed mine when I was changing my A/C lines. It is a messy job though.
     
  4. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
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    Philip
    Dave
    I just did mine to fix a small leak while I was fixing the water pump. As others have said you don't need to remove the brake/control arm etc -- just wiggle the tank around to orient it right (I think it was close to inverted in the end) and it comes out.

    In the category of "I wish I'd have known", hopefully the following helps: It is easy to drain most of the gas using the fuel pump but remember all the caveats around vapor. I replaced the large lower hose connecting from the gas tank to the balance pipe, the medium sized pipe on the breather and the smaller ones on the vapor separation lines. Last bit of gas can be drained from the plug on the balance pipe - replace the sealing washer.

    Don't forget to tape up the AC lines when you pull the compressor - you don't want to get moisture in there - it turns to acid when mixed with the refrigerant - and use new white sealing washers on the compressor fixings is you take them off.

    Last, you don't need to do all this to access the front cam belt cover, but it helps.

    Good luck
    Philip
     
  5. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
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    Thanks to all for the "BTDT" info - Great stuff!

    If I were only going to do the cam belts this winter, I'd not likely try to remove the tank. But it looks like the tank's removal is the only way also for the front header to come out, and that item as well is on the to-do list. Going to remove the well-beat-up sheet metal insulation and ceramic coat both headers.

    Once the headers are out, this will also give me much better access to the infamous air pump injectors.

    Cheers - DM
     
  6. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Dave,
    I found it well worth the time invested to remove the caliper and rotor then fuel tank. I was getting frustrated trying to get the upper AC bracket off with the tank loose but not removed and I couldn't get the tank out no matter how I turned it. It really made the job go much easier, for me anyway. The next time I will start in that order instead of even trying to get to the belt cover first. I addition, with the fuel tank out of the way I was able to move my AC compressor completly out of the way without disconnecting the lines.
     
  7. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    To be honest you don't even need to remove the tank for a 30K. The room is nice but I wouldn't remove it just to change the t-belts and set valve clearances.
     
  8. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    I needed to remove mine for purely frustration level reasons. I really hate trying to work in tight places and it was so nice to be able to sit on the floor, get my whole upper body in there and work.
     
  9. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Tank removal is the way to go if you're going for the front header.

    First thing I had to do on mine! Blown header was a real exciting thing.
    Had to repaint the tank. Flame marks ya' know!

    Signed,

    Lucky
     
  10. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    A note on the headers. Recent Forza article noted that header flanges were as much as .10" SMALLER than exhaust ports!

    Do some porting and polish via gasket matching while they are off.
    Sorry I missed that. I was in a hurry!
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    socal
    you don't need to do that. just use stud pullers and move the ac aside and you are at the front belts just fine.
     
  12. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
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    PO of my car removed front headers w/o removing gas tank.

    I don't have a clue how he did it, however.
     
  13. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 17, 2003
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    Can somebody outline the proper way to drain/remove the passenger-side fuel tank?

    Does it even have to be drained? I guess it has to, if the lower hose is to be removed. The fuel pump will pump all the fuel out of this tank? How exactly are both tanks "pumped"? Are there 2 fuel pumps? The proper procedure to do this I guess would be to feed a certain hose into a gas can. Which hose?

    I'm taking the passenger tank out because I have to run a new hi-pressure AC hose to the front of the car. I'm dreading it... :(

    Somebody said you can leave the 3 small hoses attached to the cannister, and just remove the cannister?

    Any tips would be helpful...

    Thanks,
    Greg
    77 308
     
  14. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2002
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    The bridge pipe that links the two tanks has a drain bolt on it. Just remove the bolt and all the gas will flow right out.

    You may want to disconnect the line that goes to the carburettor and run the fuel pump to drain the bulk of the fuel into a canister. You can then use the drain bolt to get that last bit out before removing the tanks.

    Once the tank is drained, remove the bridge pipe and place a plastic bag over the open gas tank ends. Make sure it is well sealed. You don't want to have an open end and cause a spark when handling the tank.

    Lastly, if they were not changed recently, replace the rubber hoses that connect the bridge pipe to the tank. It is expensive but use the Ferrari ones here. They are the correct metric size and are rated for constant fuel submersion.
     
  15. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Robert.

    Any removal tips? What about the 3 lines to the canister?

    Brake rotor/caliper gotta come off? I just installed new larger brakes all 4 corners, so I know how to do that quickly now..

    Greg
     
  16. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    I had no problems getting the tank out with the stock brakes however it is mighty tight. I would venture to say that the caliper and maybe disc would have to come off if they are larger.

    As for the 3 breather lines at the top of the tank; they are a PAIN. I had to remove the 4 bolts from the engine mounts and disconnect the shift linkage so that I could lift the engine a little. This offered clearance between the AC lines and those 3 hoses. Those hoses are a US thing that the Euro cars did not have. It seems as though all the US spec stuff does little more than get in your way when doing any kind of work.
     
  17. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Greg, I've removed my passanger side tank one more time since this post started, header problems. Anyway it is very easy once you work through it once. As far as the hose pieces that conect the tanks to the cross over pipe, I went to a parts house and found fuel rated hose in the correct size for about one dollar per inch. That's way lower than the Ferrari part which was $55 each for the two 5" hoses. Also I had no trouble either time with the 3 canister lines.
    Best of luck.
     
  18. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Okay, I have two 77 US version 308 GTB. The one I am presently trying to get on the road, has been deeply troubling my patience, but I am winning. It had a broken primary header tube on the rear header, which I swapped out. After getting the muffler on, doing the belts, and getting it running again, I found it also had a bad front header. Hackdude had welded on a patch to the inside collector and by the looks, he did it ON THE CAR! There are slag holes the size of a cigarette.

    I really did not care to remove the fuel tank, so after reading several threads on the matter, decided it would come out underneath. And it did. But I ended up getting pretty frustrated before I unbolted the motor mounts and jacked the motor up and back to gain clearance.

    Its actually fairly easy to get the motor out, easily less than 6 hours if you dont monkey around, and possibly alot less. I plan to pull this one out this winter and get the cleaner out. You can leave the front header attached to the motor, and also the starter and alternator. That should save a great deal of time. I didnt do that the first time with the other car, and that first time I had it out in about 7 hours. I bet you could shave a couple off that leaving all that front stuff hanging on there.

    Once the engine is out, cleaning the motor and compartment is a breeze, as well as removing the tanks and replacing hoses. As per headers and how they fit, I have two different versions of headers, but they both align to the heads of both engines so as to offset the port by about 1/8" or so. The header flanges would need to be modified or the studs relocated to move them over, and doing it with the motor in the car would be seemingly impossible. But from what I have heard and read, matching those ports up could gain you a few HP.
     
  19. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie
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    Walt,
    Thanks for the fuel line money-saving tip-I'll check it out.

    About the 3 lines to the canister:

    It looks as though they can be left on the tank, by just simply removing the canister w/ the lines attached. has anyone done this? Less risk of damaging the tank nipples (is that the right word?)....

    Thanks to all,
    Greg
     
  20. msouza

    msouza Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2005
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    Milton Souza
  21. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Milton, very helpful...

    Greg
     
  22. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Brakes can stay.....just cut all the rubber lines and replace while you are in there..

    Is this to replac e the A/C lines?

    I say cut the rubber ones 'cause if you brake the metal fittings you are in for work..........
     
  23. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie
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    BT,
    Yep, I'm forced to remove the tank because my hi-side AC hose burst. I suspect the shop overfilled w/ R12--would this cause a hose burst? IMO, too big a coincidence, this hose bursting so soon after the shop put my car (new condensor) together, and charged the system.

    However, I can't prove it, so I'm doing the replacement myself. I already have the hose cut and fittings crimped on--just of matter of installing it now.
    I'd rather do it myself anyway--I'll take my time and be careful....

    As far as cutting hoses, I'd rather not if I don't absolutely need to. Mine look recently replaced, so I'm trying to preserve what I can. Somebody said to leave the 3 vapor hoses attached and just take off the canister w/ the tank--have you heard of this being done? Looks easier to me....

    Thanks,
    Greg
     
  24. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    As I said earlier I had no trouble with the 3 canister lines but I really like the idea of removing the canister with the tank.
     
  25. 330gt

    330gt Formula 3

    Nov 12, 2004
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    Kerry Chesbro
    Hi Greg,
    I had to replace the exact hose last year. Here's how I did it:
    http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari/308/ACHoseReplacement.htm

    Regards, Kerry
     

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