Funny how nobody complains of Renault's "Team Orders."

I know what you mean, I didnt even watch it fully today. Seem to have no feeling for it without our red team in the mix. As much as an F1 fan I am, I am a ferrari fan first and foremost. Which is funny, most in the stands when I watch a race is filled with Red, wonder how many feel the same way.

 

I have to admit, I was very surprised that Renault didn't even try to hide the fact of team orders. Even the announcers said Fisi should let him past. Wow.

Maybe because it wasn't for the win? I don't know.

 

Yes cause its the rule changes that EVERY team has to follow that make Ferrari suck this year and not their over confidence and inability to adabt like the other teams.

 

Come on dude, the car is fine, the tires are a major issue. Mich has had 3x the amount of data to cater for there teams, as opposed to Bridges 3 teams.Even if the car was behid a bit, they stoll should have been right up there with Ren and Mclearn battleing it out.

 

totally agree.

 

I realize that we're Tifosi, not Frogosi , but the "orders" were to Alonso to pass Fisi --- NOT for Fisi to let Alonso by.

We also heard Button get "team orders" to pass Alonso, or back off the settings. When the opportunity finally came, Alonso didn't block Button. Alonso didn't get "team orders" from BAR; that was just strategy. (Button was faster at the moment, and had an additional pit stop).

Every driver has a strategist in the pits. We only heard Alonso's tell Fred to pass a slower car. Fisi didn't play "Dr Chop" trying to block. That's not necessarily team orders -- Alonso was quicker.

And every team has orders not to take your teammate out blocking a pass.

It's just that MS and JPM don't pay any attention to the latter.

 

It's kinda obvious Fisi let FA pass. FA wasn't that much quicker.
Before the race I'm sure Flavio told Fisi to let FA pass(if he is behind) and if Kimi is in front.

Fisi had the lead but he screwed up / Fisi's first pit stop = team messed up.

 

The one thing I don't like about Team Renault is the obvious bias Flavio has towards FA. No matter what Fisi does (right or wrong), Flavio will find something to yell about at him. It was obvious that Flavio would give team orders because of Flavio's unusual love for FA. It kind of ruined the race for me as does any team order similar to what happened today.

 

Gee let's see... FA is leading the WDC and Flav is the guy's manager and you seem somehow surprised over unusal love as you put it ....that would be like Willie Webber running Ferrari and telling RB to move aside... more usual than unusual..

 

It might not be the case without team orders. I know that he's the manager of FA, too, but he just b!tches too much at Fisi imo.

 

True regarding Fisi letting FA passed but complete untrue regarding FA wasn't that much quicker. Fisi was SOOOOO slow that he allowed Kimi to walk past. FA was AGAIN being held up by this pretend race driver called Fisi.

Fisi ruined FA's Montreal race ... although FA has to take some of the blame for getting too excited and pissed at Fisi.

Fisi should drive trucks for a living
Pete

 

The radio traffic is staged, pure and simple. The teams know that the rules changed so that the radio is "open" to the organizers.

The feed I get is the FOM feed with no commentary (which isn't half bad).

If you don't believe me, anyone notice in qualifying when Kimi got the pole, the engineer said "you're on the air" and the first thing out of Kimi's mouth was to thank the team?

All marketing BS.

 

Fisi struggled to get his tyres up to temperature in the opening laps, and ran wide on the exit of Turn 10 and let the door open to Kimi.

I'm looking at the lap by lap times between FA/GF and you're right FA was quicker at the beginning. But even he was matching FA's times, FA would have went in front of Fisi anyway. (btw the last 12 laps Fisi was much quicker than FA. , Okay I'm going shut up now.)

 

Excellent analysis and actually shows Fisi's weakness clearly.

Fisi is NOT aggressive enough on cold tyres. Another driver that had problems like this was Frentzen ... took 5 laps to get himself up to speed. Once up to speed he was very fast and all ... but the race effectively was over.

Many drivers suffer this problem, but they really have NO F1 career. Notice how MS (other than poor starts) is on it straight away, so was Senna and so is Kimi and FA.

The race STARTS when the lights go out, NOT when your tyres are nice and warm. Fisi needs to improve this part of his game ... or simply get out of the seat.
Pete

 

its's always like this...only when ferrari does this...everything is wrong..

 

This topic is so inane. Renault scores the SAME points weather its FA and Fisi 2 and 3 or, 3 and 2. Renault wants the WDChampionship as well as Mfg championship. Simple ; let FA pass. No rules broken.
Montero, on the other hand should be penalized for almost taking JPM out. Does he have a Renault binder in his contract ?
In the same spirit JPM should have taken FA out.
Its not just a gentlemens sport anymore, money is involved; its war.

 

Renault may score same number points but with Fernando ahead in the points he MUST place above Fisi - same is true with McLaren - Kimi MUST place ahead of JPM to make it all work. Even my horse shows work like that - at the end of one season (a year), I won one of my driving classes overall nationally by a mere 3 points.

NO way was it Monteiro's fault - it was obvious on the replays and the announcers even concurred that it was JPM's fault - only problem was that it was too bad he got back on the track again. Of course he blamed everything on someone else - Verstappen (years ago)- that's searching the bottom of barrel for blame.

It's always been about the almighty dollar, euro, pound, franc, whatever the currency at the time. Anytime money is involved in a competitive event it can have a bit of ungliness.

Carol

 

The thing is though, how does he go about doing this? Driving slower on cold tyres is obviously to compensate for the reduced grip.

How can you explain Schumacher / Senna / Hakkinen / Alonso / Raikkonen etc driving harder on cold tyres, and keeping it on the track at the same time? Talent, mixed with more determination and mental focus/concentration?

Fisi seems to do well in one lap qualifying... and that is with cold tyres.

 

Agree 100%. It's the same thing when MS passed someone on the parade lap somewhere in 1997 or 1998. I've seen it happen several times since then and there were no penalties.

Maybe slightly off-topic but did anyone notice the difference in braking between FA and JB (rev-throttle-brake graphics)? FA was much cleaner (only braking once BEFORE the corner, not IN it like JB). Is this because the Renault is smoother or is FA a smoother driver?

Ciao, Peter

 

Ah, I wasn't the only one to notice that! I caught that telemetry during the race and thought it was a really cool comparison. I think thats what makes FA so good, is he drives smooth. How do you think the reliability is so good on the Renault for FA? He doesn't "abuse" the car. He doesn't MASH the gas coming off corners. He doesn't SLAM on the brakes. He eases into it, and the car has thanked him for the kind treatment by giving him the WC points lead.

 

Button is smoother with the steering, and Alonso is smoother with the pedals.

Alonso's steering technique is unique in Formula 1.

 

Did you see the reaction during qualifying? Flavio was delighted at Fisi's provisional pole and he was not very impressed with Alonso's time.

I have to say I was surprised at the open statement made by Renault regarding team orders. Of course it was the right thing to do (we're towards the end of the season and not at the beginning as with MS and RB in Zeltweg), but team orders are officially banned and I'm stunned Renault would talk about it so blatantly.

And I'm also surprised that Renault doesn't get slapped for it. Seems to me, that the FIA should give up on the team order rule since it really is not reflecting reality.

 

It seems that there is no feathering of the whell when it comes to Alonzo. It's either all the way to lock or it's lock and back to lock!

What do the SpeedTV guys say when they refer to him? I can't remember, it's somthing about the way he cuts the wheel and they're surprised the car's front end doesn't wash out more readily.