Furstrated with my 355. Need help

If the shop missed by that much on the compression and leak down test I would be very reluctant to have them do the work. Once the heads are off if they are equipped to do another leak down test on the cylinders only I would put money on you needing more than just a valve job. With 40% leakage on a 95 odds are very good you will be looking at pistons /rings etc. Operation snowball is underway. It could get to be lots of $$$$$$.

 

I think if you had it done it would be as reliable as a 99 or any other ferrari... And if you got a 99 - you could also have the same problem - depending on the condition...

I am guessing the original report you got was not done properly - you probably would not go from 8% to 40% in 200 miles - so I assume the original leak down test was not done properly - or you were sold a bill of goods. 8 - 10% might have been enough for me to raise a few questions/concerns...

I think you might have an issue selling the car without the work being done - unless someone buys without a PPI - and ethically can your dealer "friend" actually put this thing on the market without disclosing it probably needs $6K valve, rings & pistons (possibly). If you sell it on consignment - you also may be in jeopardy (if nothing more than morally) in not mentioning this is a problem.

Now - on the other hand - if you are going to sell it letting people know there is a problem - you will be discounting it accordingly - I would weight what you paid for it - what you are losing on it - and what the cost of the repairs to make it perfect. If they are about the same - pay to make it perfect for yourself.

The 95 and 99 are nearly identical - you have a newer car with the 99 and the computer system is upgraded, etc. But the 95 has some air handling advantages... And you also will have had everything apart and fixed - so you will have 3-5 years of "worry free" driving... If you go to another car - be it a 99 or whatever - you now will have the same worries - and may find problems with it as well.

I also have a 1995 Spider - when I bought it (as I have with my other f-cars) - I took it for a full 30K - every little thing that needed to be done, engine, new clutch, brakes, shocks, etc. etc. (I even had the little carpet mat snaps fixed). I do this so - I know everything about the car - I get a full detailed photos of the work done (for later resale) - I fix any and everything that is wrong... (I think I spent 10K just a few months after I bought the car) - I think it gives me the feeling that the car is "mine" - I know it better - and I can count on it.

Get the best mechanic - there are several in your area - develop a relationship that you can trust and ask advise, resolve issues that you run into, etc.

Those are my thoughts...

Rich

 

I think you need a third opinion. It may be that the new numbers are wrong, whether by accident or that someone is trying to sell you something. Take the car to a separate shop and see which set of numbers verify. Don't tell the third shop what the first two said, you don't want to influence the outcome.

 

Just for information purpose only who in Houston did the leak down test?

 

You will not get it done for 6k. The valves cannot be ground and exhaust valves alone are about 2600 for the set.

I would also like to know how someone can justify doing a major service on a car that needs a valve job? Or did you tell them to go ahead and do it?

 

If you were my customer I would be telling you to expect to be spending the upper limit you mentioned before, for the reasons I mentioned before. I dont believe in getting into the car unless the owner is prepared for a probable outcome. I do not believe as said before that you will need just a valve job. If you get off for 10k great but you should not go into it expecting that.


Also Tillman gave good advice, get another opinion.

 

So why did a service get done on a car that was in such dire need of a valve job?

And I see good guys make mistakes all the time. Honesty and competance are two very different things. You are looking for a good mechanic, not a soul mate.

Don't mean to beat you up but it sounds like some nice people have not been looking out for your interests. You have to start doing that now until you find a mechanic with talent and a conscience.

 

I could be wrong but info from like Eugenio in Ca will do the following:

We currently offer a complete Head Rebuild along with a Major Service for F355's. F355's built between 1995 to early 1998 have the well known "inferior" valve guides orginally used by Ferrari, and the heads on these cars will not last. This complete service includes completely removing and rebuilding the heads along with a complete Major Service and a water pump and front seal. This particular type of Major Service with Head Rebuild is approximately $9995. Note: Cars with higher mileage may require bottom end work which is extra.

The 6K number was minus the other work for the major - so I subtracted 3 - 4K since the major was noted already done... Might be off or confused but would this be the service you would need?

If you are hearing 16 - 20K - I know that some shops will offer an entire rebuild for 25K of the entire engine. Also aren't used engines for 355 like 25K. I could be completly off - since I (fortunately) have not had to do this type of repair in the past - now I am just curious about this....

 

All the labor for the major will have to be replicated by the time the heads are off and back on. Most of the parts will have to be re-replaced as well except the trans oil, spark plugs and the filters. That is why I asked why the major got done on a car in need of a valve job. 3/4 of every dollar spent went down the drain.
I would also say that in a 95 with 40% leakage I would make a wager that pistons/rings/sleeves are in that cars future to put the motor right. In my opinion going into that motor without that expectation is a mistake. Also having been into quite a few there are always extras. I dont quote jobs based on best case scenarios that I know almost never happen just to get the job. I try very hard to get the job done for under estimate and quote real life prices.

 

I own a 1999' 355 GTS F-1 and have had none of the issues you spoke of (other than headers,paid by factory).

I have currently 50,000 miles plus and still on original clutch and believe me
I drive it VERY hard at times "not beating the crap out of it" but not babied.

Rule 1.... do not use auto mode!! It slips clutch too much IMO.
(this may be the reason people blow thru clutches in 8,000 miles??)

Rule 2... NEVER skimp on routine maintance!!

Rule 3...Drive it a minimum 1x/week (And NOT for 10 minutes,more like an hour)!!! And always follow proper warm up procedure!!

Hope this helps a bit.

 

"I also have a 1995 Spider - when I bought it (as I have with my other f-cars) - I took it for a full 30K - every little thing that needed to be done, engine, new clutch, brakes, shocks, etc. etc. (I even had the little carpet mat snaps fixed). I do this so - I know everything about the car - I get a full detailed photos of the work done (for later resale) - I fix any and everything that is wrong... (I think I spent 10K just a few months after I bought the car) - I think it gives me the feeling that the car is "mine" - I know it better - and I can count on it.

Get the best mechanic - there are several in your area - develop a relationship that you can trust and ask advise, resolve issues that you run into, etc.

Those are my thoughts...

Rich[/QUOTE]





Rich, I could not agree more with your comments. In the last month or so a very simular thread was run with the topic being buying a 355 discounted for the valve work needed.

Two of the same things happened in this thread that happened in that one.

1) I said basicaly exactly what you are saying

2) rifledriver showed up on his domsday horse and set the record straight...that is anything less then a 15 - 20 k bill would be money wasted, everything needed to be replaced.

Now, I'm all for "full diclosure" and I want to know the worst case possiblity...but every time a thead comes up the has anything to do with a 355 + valve = $20k as far as rifledriver is concerned.

I guess I just like thinking the glass if half full

PS check out this months issue of Sport Car Market, The Sheehan article(may also be posted on his site) (while not about 355's) shares the same thoughts as in point # 1

 

Heck, add it up for yourself. Working up estimate yesterday, the parts for the head alone (guides seals and head gaskets) are better than $3K alone. Add to this sublet work (done correctly!) and all of the normal service items, and then labor and where does the $6k figure come in? I have done a number of "quick job" repairs lately. Hammering out the guides cold means reboring all of the guide bores and custom making guides to fit each individual hole. Talk about taking a lot of time! Dissambly of the throttle assys, cleaning, re-o ringing, re-setting and then time to rest using a manometer. Even if every short cut in the book was done I do not see any way $6K would be real. Reality is a good thing, I'm with Brian here.
Dave

 

Remember - I said 6K for the vavle Guides - Very true that other things might be wrong - and the 6K does not including these or pulling the engine (AKA 30K service) - I must assume that since the 30K was done - let's just assume that the belts, waterpump, tensioner bearings, etc - are done and do not need to be done again... A lot of things you mentioned you used the word "could" need to be done - remember - let's assume that the first Compression Test was correct - and 200 miles later the second one was correct as well (which indicated 40% leakage) - I am going to go on a limb and say that - I do not think that in this time that you can say that you will absolutely need to rebore, have custom made guides, etc. etc. (you might - but you might not)

So the 6K may be low - I was going by some of the things like Eugenio's information, etc... Which is just replacing the Vavle guides - and doesn't include the low end work like reboring, etc. (And for those who have used Eugenio - I would not say he cuts corners or he is not top notch) But let's not jump in and say it is 20K right off the bat either...

Let's also remember that Sohail mentioned that he could get a discount on doing the service with who he bought it from - and he is still getting quotes in the 15 - 20K range - do any of you see that being just a little high? If you are paying 15 - 20K with a discount - I will promise that is way off. Again - you can get a whole engine core rebuild for around 25 - 30K - and that is just about everything you could do on the low end to an engine...

I also agree that you should know that it (Could) cost X dollars if all is wrong and you have to do everything... Of course you could also say you might have to replace the whole engine at 25 - 35K as well - cause I guess that is really the worst case you should expect..

 

I think that is the best attitude and course of direction you should take...

Let us know - and good luck....

I think we are all sorry that your first experience is like this - do not let it turn you off - but if you can do it - at least you are basically driving a new car