Future Of SPA (Belgium) Is Uncertain

Over the last 15~20 years, every time I've ever heard F1 fans responses to Bernie Ecclestones criticisms of the spectator facilities at Silverstone, it has always been that they are far better than those at Spa and Interlagos, both of which get rated as the worst anywhere on the F1 calender.

I've never been to either circuit but the gist of the comments made about the facilities tends to be that they are stuck in the past.

 

In the land of the blind the one eyed is king.

Yes Silverstone is less worse than Interlagos, but not by much. At least not in the past, nowadays they apparently improved things. At Interlagos as well btw. Which then probably leaves Spa at the bottom of the infrastructure food chain.

 

What do hotels have to do with how easy it is to get in and out of? At every track you need to get from the hotel to the track... whether you drive 5 minutes before hitting the traffic jam or 35 minutes is irrelevant. Spa was the easiest track to get to that I've been to. It's much easier than Montreal, Monza, Suzuka and others. I explained why - because they have "trails" from rest areas on the highway which lead directly to parking areas. If you know what you are doing (I figured it out only on race day), you don't wait in traffic at all. I literally did not wait in any traffic to get into or out of Spa. The busiest part was the highway on the way back - it was a jam packed road, but it was moving maybe 40mph for the first few miles before it thinned out. Montreal was harder to get to because you have to drive to the metro, walk to the train, switch trains at least once, and there is a gigantic traffic jam on that one-stop train that gets you to the track.

What I said is exactly right - Spa is the easiest track to get to and from that I've experienced out of any track I've ever been to, including NASCAR, F1, ALMS and others.

Indianapolis is a craphole of a city. Spa is set in the beautiful Ardennes. I feel bad for anyone who comes to the USA for the first time and ends up in Indy. You live in Chicago, Andreas... I love Chicago. How can you possibly think Indy is a great city when you come from a place like Chicago? Conversely, the scenery of Belgium is breathtaking. As for grandstand access, I don't know what "nazi rules" means, but when I pay for a top seat, I want my seat. They have people checking tickets at every track I've ever been to. Spa is no different there. As for infrastructure, again, not sure what you mean... Spa is easily the equal of any other track. Actually better than most - more food and better bathrooms than most other tracks. Monza had more souvenir sellers, but I wouldn't say Spa was lacking at all.

Interesting. I think you have a chip on your shoulder about Spa and you are believing what you want to I respect Sambo's opinion, but from his own account this was his first F1 race, and a large part of his complaint was that you only see one part of the track. That's part of going to an F1 race. It's clear that it wasn't what he expected and a large part of why that's the case is just the nature of live viewing of F1 and has nothing do to particularly with Spa. Also, since it was his first race, by what metric would we say Spa is worse? In other words, he just wasn't happy with the experience of going to an F1 race, and much of his criticism of Spa would be the same whether he was at Spa or Montreal or Bahrain or anywhere else. It was also his first and only race - but you ate up the criticism as gospel and suggest my counter is biased because the track is so great? I think it's the other way around. And isn't saying "that's just because the track is so great" sort of like saying "you only like that girl because she's got a great body and is so fun to be around"??? Isn't that the whole point?

I was at Spa last year, Montreal this year (considered a great facility), Monza before that, and I've been to lots of other tracks (F1 and non F1). Spa is the best one I've been to. The viewing of the track is better than any other venue. The infrastructure is at least the equal of any other track, and better than most. The grandstands, bathrooms, souvenirs, concessions and people were better than at most tracks, and the ease of ingress/egress was by FAR the best of any track I've been to.

It would be a travesty if Spa were left off the calendar.

 

First of all, i know were the wires are definitely crossed here. Its all about one prospective.
Sgt mike, from what i am reading i bet you you were seated in the Gold or Silver section weren't you? I come to this conclusion because of what you said in paragraph 2/ above.
If you read what i wrote i was giving an account of were i was, in the bronze section, which is 3/4s of the track. Were the majority of the fans are located.
You being seated in the Gold sections would explain why you had bathrooms as opposed to crappy portaloos.
So this of course would make sense as to why you had a different experience to me.
When one watches F1 on tv, one often sees the people in the background with smart shirts on and polished shoes ect ect. I know these people are situated either in the Gold section or have pit passes. The tv coverage never ever show the majority of the spectators in muddy hiking boots and spades digging into the muddy embankments.
So yes Sgtmike, my account of what i experienced in the Bronze section is gospel, as gospel as your account of what you experience in the "Top seats and facilities".
1/ Regarding your account of how easy it was for you to get to the track. being in the Gold or silver section of the track you will clearly use the top entrances/exits and not the bottom entrances/exits. That took 4 hours to get out of.....seriously.
2/&3/ More upmarket section than that of mine.
4/ No its not my first race at all, i was at the Italian GP last year and will be in another 2 days time again.
My complaint was that the TV screen at the track section i was at was a very small one (approx 15x15 feet viewed at over 100 meters away) and there was no way one could follow the race. As far as the "only seeing one part of the track", well that obvious isnt it? You did suggest using the Kangaroo tv system, in which i did for the first time and that made the difference. But i already made it clear about only one stall catering for the largest Bronze section with may be 30K people.
So to conclude, i am guessing that's why your experience was a 180 to mine. So when one hears of people complaining about Spa its always going to be coming from the people in the bronze sections and never the Gold/Silver. From what has been posted on this thread there are many other that have heard the same about Spa, so my view is not unique. I also bet that the 10K people that did not attend this years Spa were not from the Gold/silver sections I bet them sections were not affected.
Different sections, different prospectives.

 

A few pictures backing up what i have said.

My grandstand seat (dont be mistaken, thats one hell of a muddy and slippy slope) http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8942/18741625.jpg
My giant tv screen at the top of Pouon LOL!
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5161/screenze.jpg
My life saver http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4493/kangaroo.jpg
My bathrooms at the bottom of Pouon http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7125/portaloo.jpg

Read the interesting review comments regarding the Spa bronze section and the gold sections, its halfway down this link and entitled SPA FRANCORCHAMPS BELGIUM F1 GRAND PRIX TRAVEL REPORTS. http://www.grandprixcities.com/spafrancorchamps.html

 

I went to Silverstone this year and I was extremely impressed. The facilities have improved so much since I was last there back in 2002. They really put on a show. My son and I spent quite a lot of our time in the entertainment area watching bands in the evenings. There were people collecting litter (trash) all the time so if someone dropped a beer can it soon disappeared.
I also went to Spa. I was also there last year. Both times I had Bronze tickets and I camped. I have also been to Barcelona, Monza, and Imola. All of what you say about Spa is true, but it won't stop me going next year as we meet up with a great bunch of people and have a great time. We watched from the Kemmel Straight and there were people 'digging in' on the banking there. The walk from the entrance near the F1 Village up past Eau Rouge is quite a challenge in the dry and downright dangerous in the wet. I can't imagine the modern Silverstone being like that. The weather was incredibly bad. A guy on our campsite was struck by lightning, and survived on Friday morning. At the track it was sometimes impossible to get warm as I was so soaked. I found that drinking more beer helped!

So my advice would be to forget about your Kangaroo TV, spend the money on beer!

 

Sambomydog answered a bunch already and since Mike sat in the first corner with at least Silver (if not Gold) seats, Sambomydog's comment appy.

Hotels have everything to do with the track: It doesn't help you really if you can leave the track within 5 minutes but then drive for hours to get to your hotel because the track is in the middle of nowhere. City GPs can't be beaten in sheer convenience.
If you go onto www.formula1.com's website and look for accomodations, all the hotels it gives you for Spa are in Brussels and its suburbs. That's hours away. I know some clever folks on here have figured out some small hotels in the track's proximity and I will eventually follow their advice. But that's not where the majority of the fans stay.

Now you're grasping for straws. I've been to the Montreal GP many times and always stayed in the downtown area within walking distance of the metro. No hassle at all. The only real hassle is trying to squeeze back into the metro after the race.

Indy is not Chicago. No question. But it has everything (and more) you need to visit a GP comfortably: Enough (!) hotels to accomodate everybody. Plenty of clean parking at/around the track. Tons of bars and restaurants for after race parties and a downtown core that actually celebrates its GP. It ain't Montreal or Monaco, but it has a much livelier atmosphere than eg. Valencia where you wouldn't know a GP is in town. And it has an airport to fly into.
While we had the USGP friends from Europe flew in just for the GP and loved every bit of it. Including Indy. It is a smaller city for us Americans, but it is about as big and has as many skyscrapers as the biggest European city with skyscrapers (Frankfurt). So to a European tourist is does feel and say "USA".

We've covered this ground before and you are one of the few people who actually prefers to sit all 3 days in the same seats. I don't. I love to be in a different grandstand/location for every practice/qualifying session there is and in my paid for seat during the race. I find it a lot more interesting to visit the track from different angles and see the cars at different speeds/turns etc.
I have no idea whether Spa allows that or not. I made that comment in regards to Montreal and Valencia where the guard Nazis only let you go to your designated grandstand even on the practice/qualifying days. VERY different from Indy where you could sit anywhere you liked and watch the cars.
In all fairness that has probably by now more to do with the greedy dwarf than the track: I imagine that Austin will be run by the same Nazi rules as this seems sadly to become the norm. Going forward hopefully I find some folks I can swap tickets with for Friday and Saturday.

I have a chip on my shoulder regarding the classic GPs (Spa, Monza, Silverstone) because I think they are overrated by the fans. Yes, they should remain in the calendar for their historic value but as races to visit they are not as good as some of the races that folks generally look down on: E.g. Hungaroring and Indy are Mickey Mouse tracks, but are fantastic venues to visit because they offer all the creature comfort PLUS the best viewing opportunities. Everybody on here (well, not everybody, Carroll for instance didn't drink the Kool Aid) gets teary eyed over Monza because it is our team's "home track" and because of its history. But from a spectators' perspective it is like watching a tennis match: Turn head from right to left and back. Repeat a million to watch that 100 m piece of track in front of you.

Spa is a fantastic track to watch on TV.

100% agreed

PS:
1) I will visit the Spa GP one day because it is a classic. At least from this thread I learned that only the best seats will make the experience less miserable. Thanks Sambomydog and Mike!

2) I'm planning on another Monza GP. Not because it is so great (it is not) but because the track lies in a convenient area within Europe to get to. And because the race is in the fall, so it won't be such a sweat box as e.g. Valencia or Istanbul GP.

 

My first visit in 1970 for the last GP on the long circiut and have been at every GP for the last 19 yrs. You may have surmised that I love the place and have worked as a race marshal there for the last 18yrs. This year I was a flag marshal for the GP at post 12 just before Pouhon, where we had no crashes ( sorry) but for the guy that was on the bank he can't have missed the four cars we had off in the GP2 race can he??
I was camping on the marshals camp site, on the side of a hill with the same type of bogs you had and no running water, nowhere near good as Silverstone which is shear luxury by comparison!! We got soaked every day with nowhere to dry clothes out, and not much sleep as the music was pounding on till 3am and we had to goet transport to our post at 6am Fri, Sat and Sun. By the way we do NOT get paid a penny for the work we do but I'll be back next year as the circuit is like Monza, a fabulous place to be. Unfortunately I will not be there this year as I'm off to the 100kms race at Silverstone instead.
Spa is always on its last legs every year but will be there next year for those brave enough all being well , I know I will be there!!!

 

Anyone who did not know what this thread was about while reading it. They could be forgiven for thinking we are discussing a 1972 Welsh rally stage from a spectators point of view.
Not the high tech multi billion $/£, beautiful people sport of F1