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FYI - Dubbini Fakes

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Napolis, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Isn't that the truth.........there are some quite legitimate and public stories around about the con men in the art world. No surprise here about F-cars either.........makes you wonder if any were "Classiche" certified.
     
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  3. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony!

    Jeff
     
  4. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    #28 GIOTTO, Jun 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    Andrew
    :eek: Whoa... what on Earth could you salvage from that? :confused:
     
  6. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
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    Are you kidding? You could salvage at least 4 or 5 Ferrari's from that!


    Terry
     
    till.a.fischer and wbaeumer like this.
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  8. tommott77

    tommott77 Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2009
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    I am confused a bit. Are they being accused of 'resurrecting' chassis and the accompanying chassis #s with with parts off of other cars or are they being accused of falsifying the chassis numbers themselves?
     
  9. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Aluminum body can be totally ripped off with chassis remaining intact. I would like to see the football and women's underwear content taken to someplace else.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  10. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    That car looks pretty mangled, wouldn't the chassis itself have been damaged by an incident as severe as that?

    Sorry about that Kare, it's actually part of my signature and a bit of banter with some of the moderators. I've sent you some instructions via PM for blocking it from your view by changing one of the forum options. :eek:

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  11. Pass

    Pass F1 Veteran
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    Yes. It is called the "Ship of Theseus" paridox .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

    I was at the Mercedes Benz classic center a few years ago talking with the director Mr Peter Speith. He said that of the 29 1929 SSK built some 50 exist. The Mercedes Benz was party to a lawsuit for selling and or helping procure parts for cars thet were cut up and rebuilt into two or more seperate cars all with the same serial numbers.
     
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  13. Pass

    Pass F1 Veteran
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    On a similar note the late Boyd Coddington plead guilty to a Ship of Theseus fraud in California for hot rods.
     
  14. Protouring442

    Protouring442 F1 Veteran
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    Cool... never heard of that!

    Shiny Side Up!
    Bill
     
  15. Michele

    Michele Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
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    In the 1980's, Bugatti's were chopped up as well: using the engine, chassis and body for replica's makes three new cars with original numbers....
     
  16. odin

    odin Karting

    Nov 22, 2007
    52
    I think, it's quite common for some 'collectors'.
    Corrado Cupellini, Egon Hofer, Rodney Felton and David Piper did the same.
    Now other collectors are doing Recreations, of lost Racing Cars, based on standart chassis, called Specials and this cars are selling for higher prices, than original cars.
     
  17. Pass

    Pass F1 Veteran
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  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    There's a big different from fully disclosing what you're doing and not and what something is and what it's not.

    From what I understand these guys have been accused of outright fraud.

    Cool (Fully Disclosed) Project BTW.
     
  19. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    stop wasting your time posting in this thread...please get back to work and finish that amazing machine. i wish, i wish, i wish i had the talent to build something so spectacular!!!
     
  20. ggjjr

    ggjjr Formula Junior

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    And completely different than cutting up a perfectly good car to make something to compensate for your small.....

    George
     
  21. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

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    #43 andymont, Jun 25, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
    The story starts from a vengeance of an unfaithful manager fired several years ago from the Dubbini's company. He wrote an anonymous letter to the Ferrari that reported the matter to the police.
    So the police , after an investigation completed on last march, decided to seize four cars, more an engine.
    Mr.Dubbini, after being questioned by the judge two days ago, now accuses Mr. Montezemolo to have acted with extreme superficiality in forwarding the letter to the police without trying to understand how the facts effectively were.
    One of the four cars has been now released from seizure because has been deemed genuine.

    Ciao

    Andrea
     
  22. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    I have been looking for a good place for "one man's opinion" and this is it. Ok what is meant by"accurately reproduced". "majority of parts", "similar vintage" "proper chassis and engine" ? Let's take the Venus de Milo statue. Can another similar statue, made from marble from the same quarry, using similar tools,parts from similar originals of the period and done during the same period as the original, be considered as the original? Of course not! Until the rules for "original" are clearly defined by Classiche and a category clearly defined for "reproductions" this nonsence is going to go on.I have built and drive a reproduction and anyone with a good idea can recognise it for what it is. Anyone who askes is imediatly told it is a kit car. And you know, the answer always is WOW[or something similar] it's beautiful. So let's some of you experts get behind organising something that will bring some sanity to this reproduction thing. just one man's o[pinion tongascrew
     
  23. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks. Very interesting.
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Kare- It is a running joke on FChat that the moderators are changing Andrew's signature, so he has nothing to do with the content. Maybe now that you know that, it will not bother you so much.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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  26. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    "Andrew"'s very existence, like that of some of these cars, has been questioned by experts in the field.


    ;)
     
  27. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

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    Andrea M.
    #49 andymont, Jun 25, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
    I can't tolerate anymore, to see more and more fakes and forgers moving in our world of enthusiasts.
    I always naively hope for a serious intervention of the international authorities that govern our movement.
    But, what should I think, when I see the ASI president (AutoMotoclub Storico Italiano - Italian Historic Cars and Bikes Federation ), the most representative member of the italian collectioners, riding shameless, on his mispresented as genuine Alvis 12/70 S , when even the rocks know that this car is the result of a modern reconstruction started from a more common saloon car ?
    This is a real shame.


    Ciao

    Andrea
     
  28. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    Oct 1, 2008
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    Well, that's not entirely accurate. While I haven't written what's currently in the signature, I have the power to remove what has been placed there at any time. I enjoy the banter, so have voluntarily left the additions by the moderators in place. :)

    :D


    It's interesting to see Luca de Montezemolo making noises on behalf of Ferrari to see punishments meted out over this. I guess they really feel that there's enough truth in the speculations to see specific charges answered for.

    What will happen for the owners if it is proven that their cars are not genuine historic Ferraris? Will they be compensated the difference between the "historic" price and what would be a "replica"/non-historic price for that car?

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     

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