Gangland

Peter,
This stuff has been going on for ever. It's nothing new. MS-13 is a really ruthless gang, but they're not doing anything they didn't learn 20 years go It seems worse because there are more gangs, but there are also more people on the planet. More people=a higher gang population, not necessarily a higher gang-people ratio.

Then there is the biggest gang of them all...the US Gov

 

They seem to mainly kill each other here in Philly. Drug business slayings.

 

My favorite episode was the one on gangs in the US Military. Basically, the gov't knows gangs are joining solely to learn how to fight/use automatic weapons, but puts up with it to fill recruitment quotas. Mind blowing on so many levels...

 

Yes the gov't knows they are there and they are watched. As long as they keep their noses clean there is not much that can be done or should be. Maybe th eindividual WILL turn their lives around. I have had a couope under my command do exactly that.

HOWEVER, Once a F-UP, (almost) ALWAYS a F-UP (as it relates to these guys). They eventually will F-Up and get caught and the military will kick them out or send them to Leavenworth (jail). And when you go to a US Military Confinment Facility (jail) YOU STAY THERE until your sentence is COMPLETELY SERVED. Very unlike civilian jails where you can get time off for not spitting in your jail cell.

The military ain't quite the Gang-Banger Univ you (the show) make it out to sound like.

 

Not long ago they uncovered a network here where the gangs had stockpiles of military-issue goods, primarily guns and kevlar jackets. Probably the exception to the rule, but an interesting story to follow.

As far as gangs, I think they first became an urban issue once Mayflower IV hit the shores a few hundred years ago. In bigger cities, there are areas where gang activity thrives and then there is the rest of civilization. Bangers may be dumb, but they're not stupid. They know better than to drive down streets in random neighborhoods shooting guns and causing mayhem. Residents in these areas have a zero-tolerance mindset and the moment loitering or suspicious activity becomes a concern they call the police. And they respond. Obviously, high tax base=high response.

But the areas that really need to be concerned are those outlying suburbs. They possess a dangerous mix that makes them ripe for infiltration. Kids have too much money, too much freedom and not enough to do. Combine that with police departments established to keep the peace Mayberry-style, and gangs have had good success creeping in. A huge amount of the drug trade goes towards these kids, who in the past have readily driven into bad neighborhoods to buy drugs. And with urban sprawl there are many suburbs with near-or-over- 6-figure populations.

 

That's a minor percentage considering their most fertile recruiting grounds are the neighborhoods in which they exist. It's an unbreakable cycle where kids are either unsupervized and the gangs become their families, or they are bullied and threatened into joining. The lifestyle is glamorized, and kids are emboldened by belonging to something with so much "power" in their neighborhood. What's sad is when they interview kids from this background they truly have no sense of future or hope, they tend to assume they'll die young and live day to day, moment to moment. Prisons are merely an extension of what's happening outside.

 

I live in the heart of chicago VERY VERY close to gangs, it's nothing like the media tells you, remember they are trying to sell their product.

 

I love the show. Watched every episode at least twice.

I grew up in a nice neigborhood, but have gone to school with a wide diverse cultures since pre-school. There were gangs of all races. And you kind of had to be careful who you associated with. But it also depended on what kind of person you were as well.

I was always friends with guys I either knew were or suspected of being in gangs. One acquantance of mine I played basketball with everyday in gym junior year of H.S., went missing for a good month and half and then just reappeared out of the blue. I was shocked when he said he was jumped into the Crips and was recovering from the jump-in. I was sort of speechless and didn't know what to say, so I just replied "No **** man. Cool. Just hope you recognize me out and don't **** me up." He said, "No man, you're cool, you've always been a real nice dude. If you ever need some back up just give me a shout."

Someone brought to my attention probably 4 or 5 years out of high school how I was friends with all the gang members. And how it didn't matter who I associated with, I was cool with everyone and could cross that "invisible line" without reprecussions. I started thinking about it, and it was sort of strange to realize that. I guess since I was just calm and chilled had something to do with it. I still don't know why.

One kid, I'm not sure if he was ever in a gang, but know he hung around some brought a gun to school one day. It was apparently for protection getting off the bus. That's what he told the cops. Anyways, the gun accidently went off in his back pack. It shot a girl in the knee. She was okay. The bizarre thing was they were both really good friends. It was scary b/c it could have shot anyone of us in any part of the body.

But there were gang fights in the caffeteria, the asian gangs all carried high powered weapons in their cars (supposedly), although I still believe to this day they did, one kid was beat up really badly by an asian gang with the butt-end of a rifle at a party by an asian gang. He was in the hospital for a long time and almost died. I saw plenty of drug deals go on. Mostly weed though. Pills are the hot thing now apparently.

You can't say it's nothing like the media portrays. True, some things are exaggerated, but unless you actually live directly inside the territories controlled by gangs you never assume what it's like.

Because of my experiences, it saddens me to have such a grudge against gangs and gang members. All the ones I knew were always really nice, and never really caused trouble (in school, outside I have no idea). Some did, but so did a lot of non-gang members. I guess it all comes down to your environment and what you grow up seeing everyday.

 

Mark, which base in Germany are you at? One of the examples they gave was maybe 10 years ago, where a kid was killed in a gang initiation in Germany.

I know 99.99% of the military are not there for "Gang Banger U", but the fact that there are any, especially with the military's knowledge, is a big problem, no? (And yes, the show did "sex up" the issue to make it look worse than it is)

 

I see gang problems everywhere. Whenever I do an acquisition on an apartment complex, chances are they are gang infested. It takes time and alot of security manhours to get rid of them. You can never get rid of the gangs. They normally migrate from one corner to another. The Police is overmanned by these gangbangers and cannot afford the manpower to enforce these criminals who get away with murder. I just cannot understand why we cannot get the US MIlitary to trouble spots in major cities which are drug infested instead of sending troops to Iraq and overseas. If I were President of the U.S., besides the economy, it would be solving the safety and security of America domestically first, then worry about overseas. I think sending out our troops to the major cities to assist local law enforcement could be one of many possible solutions to curve gangs and gang violence. These clowns are multiplying like rabbits since they are getting away with dealing drugs, killings, thefts, robbery, rape, etc. The smart ones, or ones with at least a high school education, are committing white collar crimes such as mortgage fraud and use intimidating tactics to keep people from talking. Just my 0.02 cents.

Gustan

 

Guy,

I work and live at several US Army Bases in the following German cities/towns/villages: Grafenwoehr, Schweinfurt, Heidelberg/Schwetzingen and Kaiserslautern. But the US Army in Europe is so small these days, nothing happens anywhere without EVERYONE knowing it.

The "challenge" with gang members in the military is this; if they keep their nose clean (don't break civil or military law) and are not wanted for any crime, then there is not much to do. Being an active member of a gang is against military law but THE GOVT HAS TO PROVE IT. Not all that easy to do. Just a tattoo of affiliation; for example, is likely not enough evidence (I'll check with my local SJA/JAG) to warrant anything more than closer observation.

But they usually F-up sooner or later, as few use the military service opportunity to turn their lives around (but it DOES occasionally happen), and the Command then nails them. I double-doubt any gang-bangers join merely to learn to use automatic weapons (what a waste as how many gangs ACTUALLY HAVE full-autos) or self-defense w/a knife or open-hand. Once in the military, they get into drugs (mainly), and other illegal stuff and eventually get caught just like in the civilian world. I would bet that some (most?) join the military to see about expanding/restructuring their supply/distribution networks or creating their own individual network away from the gang "overhead."

I would not join the military exclusively for that kind of training. I'd just go to my local DOJO or shooting club if brushing up on my "intimidation skills" was my purpose. Unless you are assigned Spec OPs, you really don't spend that much time learning firearms or martial arts/self defense out of a regular training month. And even in those organizations, the training time devoted to those warfighting disciplines is often lower than the average civilian would think.

Playing with a full-auto weapon or learning some self-defense is in my estimation a side benefit as opposed to the REAL reason.

Hope this answers your question.

 

Gustan, even as the PREZ, you couldn't do that. In a couple of words, "posse comitatus."

No one here REALLY wants US Soldiers enforcing law on US Soil. Not a good thing. In fact we are pretty darn lousy at it (enforcing civil law).

Your military is the very best in the world at what it was created to do; kill people and break things. It is not trained to build nations or (re)establish/uphold civil law. It is stuck with those jobs in a couple of places (but it hired REAL COPS as contractors) because other branches of the govt utterly failed (IMO) to do what the he11 they're trained and funded and supposed to support US policy and strategy.

Picture this scenario: Soldier/Lawman. Soldiers do not willingly become targets. They do not go gun barrel-to-gun barrel with someone where another course of action can accomplish the same outcome. So, when you call the Infantry or Marines to come clear some ****** gang-bangers outta your building, they are likely to call in an air or artillery strike. I sure as hell would. Problem solved. Gang-bangers gone. But then again, so is your building.

 

I rather have my building demolished than have it infested with gangbangers. I know. I lived it. I have been there and sometimes it took two years to get a building stabilized. You blow up the building, it will take six months for me to have a brand new building built. I am all for it. Get the military and start concentrating on trouble spots. I do not think it would hurt to try it out. How worse could it be? Even the cops are scared and are controlled by these gangbangers. I would take my chances and have my buildings that are gang invested blown up and start from scatch. If an investor has a gang invested building, chances are that the buillding has already been destroyed and is worthless. Have the troops come in and blow the damn thing up. It would be a favor to humanity and save billions in prison rehab costs. These gangbangers mutliple like roaches so the problem will keep on escalating if our government do not act on it ASAP. As for the PREZ comment, I was joking. I was using it as an analogy if I had it my own way and if I had a chance to solve the gang problem.

Best,

Gustan

 

it s a new serie in USA? never seen in our old Europe...

 

or you can always sell and cut your losses!!
there are always ppl who are looking for bargains.. and would not mind buying the block from you and getting rid of the gangs themselves.

 

Here's a novel idea....demo the building with the gangbangers inside.

Problem solved for you and society.

 

Those clowns know the legal system more than any other scammers out there. I had some of them ask for jury trials. You have bullsh$t legal firms like LegalAid who are worse than ambulance chasers who will try to nail you and protect the gang bangers.

 

Gustan,

I knew that (you were joking), but I did not realize the gang problem had reached the proportions you describe. SheeeeeeeeeeH !!!!

Good Luck with your buildings. IF the militry could help, I do know some guys who would sign right up.

 

Don't forget about the ACLU. They love criminals. LOL.

 

I think iam the only one here who can speak on behave of those dumb@sses.

I pretty much was a gang member back in the day, they are all over the place never say they aren't around here and such because at any givin time some idiot can go and bang in places like Idiaho and Montana .

Where you live iam sure there's a couple of them already.