Garage Queen vs "drive it" | FerrariChat

Garage Queen vs "drive it"

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by mw575, Aug 30, 2005.

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  1. mw575

    mw575 F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2001
    2,924
    Lake Oswego,Or
    Full Name:
    Martin J Weiner,M.D.
    What amazes me and truly tee's me off is how a large majority of enthusiasts deplore the practice of creating a garage queen and implore fellow tifosi's to "drive it" yet when going out to buy a used ferrari want the lowest mileage car possible.
    What think you?
     
  2. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,602
    Pacific NW
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    Anthony C.
    Yes, it is sort of oxymoron. I think if I was ever in the used-Ferrari market, I would look for one with all the records and with moderate milage (~300miles/month) on the car. And most of all, the quality of the interior and the exterior. With that being said, I think that's where the desire of finding a lower milage Ferrari comes from, as in less wear and tear on the interior and possible exterior.
     
  3. BT

    BT F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 21, 2005
    15,291
    FL / GA
    Full Name:
    Bill Tracy
    Actually I think it referred to as a paradox. I agree that the desire for a low mileage car has more to do with the aesthetics and the interior condition than any reference to reliability because of lower mileage. So says I!
    BT
     
  4. jet190rs

    jet190rs Karting

    Jun 21, 2005
    208
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Rich C.
    Since we can't always get the car new, wouldn't we want to get the car in a state that's as new-like as possible?

    We want to use our cars as much as possible, but don't want cars that are used. Its because we're selfish.

    The same paradox exists with how we treat women:
    I don't want to marry a woman who has had lots of *previous owners* and lots of *miles* put on her. I want to be the one that does all the *driving* :)
     
  5. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
    3,583
    Mendocino, Ca
    Full Name:
    John
    Martin, you are so correct. The guy up in seattle with the special order dark blue 360 is a great example. I think he drove his car on several long cross country trips, just like we would all like to be able to do. Maintained it well and when it came time to sell with 50k+ on the clock, all the buyers disapeared.
    Well, I am driving mine and will deal with the market consequences when the time comes and knowing that the "cost" will be well balanced by the pleasure derived.
     
  6. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 25, 2002
    1,512
    Here, here!! Well said.

    Dane
     
  7. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,044
    USA
    I'm indifferent....I bought my 97 355 spider last November 2004 with 27.5k miles and it now has 34.5k miles. 7k miles in 10 months! I'm having a ball, to hell with depreciation!

    Life is too short to worry about this crap. Yeah, I do want some "garage queens" around so I have a nice selection of used Ferraris to choose from... ;)
     
  8. Tyler

    Tyler F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2001
    4,274
    dusty old farm town
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    Tyler
    Spot on Martin. I believe this dichotomy of words and actions exists because the money issue is more of a concern to many than they would like to admit.

    Like Dave I prefer my cars to be a little "broken in" with excellent maintenance records.


    I buried a good friend years ago who left behind a wonderful collection of extremely low mileage Porsches. He was always going to drive them more, "some day". Ever since then I make everyday my, "some day".

    Life is short and there is ZERO trade in on it at the end, so LIVE IT UP!
     
  9. mgtr1990

    mgtr1990 Formula 3

    Mar 30, 2005
    1,580
    Naples Florida
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    Martin Graham
    John I agree with your point I bought my TR because I loved the car and always will I dont drive it a lot maybe 2500 miles a year and when and if I sell it I will get what I will get The enjoyment is in having the car as well as driving it . I also have a 355 which I drive more now has 19000 miles on it and feel the same way in my mind a Hanger Queen is a car that gets trailered to the shows and washed sees maybe 200 miles a year . Most owners are driving their cars at whatever miles per year and enjoying them if you are only in this for the investment you picked the wrong hobby!!!!!

    Martin
     
  10. mw575

    mw575 F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2001
    2,924
    Lake Oswego,Or
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    Martin J Weiner,M.D.
    I guess my frustration comes from trying to sell my gorgeous,pristine '03 575 with 11 K miles. I have lowered the price far lower than the comparable low mileage '03 575's (169,500) and the few interested parties (so far) seem to be dissuaded by the miles.
    I have enjoyed the car however this is one hell of a hit from the 234K I pd new (msrp was 250K). C'est la guerre!
     
  11. mgtr1990

    mgtr1990 Formula 3

    Mar 30, 2005
    1,580
    Naples Florida
    Full Name:
    Martin Graham
    Ouch! I can see where you are coming from now but there will be a buyer for your car that will recognize the condition and mileage and will pay the premium I know on the TR I bought just as the market changed and would probably take a 10/15K loss even after I put a Tubi on it and did several hundred dollars of improvements to it. Hang in there and good luck with the sale.

    Martin
     
  12. awhite

    awhite Formula 3
    BANNED

    Jul 13, 2005
    1,229
    still here
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    hmmmm
    I get asked this all the time, when I take my car to shows with Rolands F40 LM..

    my car is a 99 360 F1, and as a matter of fact had it on the track today for a little spin while Roland was instructing. My car has @30K miles now, and I will keep putting them on.

    Every person that looks at my car, Can NOT even imagine that its a 99, and more so that it has 30K miles on it.

    I bought the car cause its a performace car, and a FERRARI. I am driving the HELL out of it :)

    thats my few cents worth...

    -A
     
  13. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,294
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Whenever I see a high mileage, late model, I feel some envy for someone who had so much fun in such a short time. Nevertheless, if I am looking for one, I would look for low mileage because there are so many. Trouble with sellinig is that potential buyers of late model Ferraris can generally afford a "like new" example. The only hope of selling high mileage car is to have a low enough price for someone who cannot otherwise buy one and they are rare animals. Having said that, my 430 will be 2 weeks old tomorrow. At the rate I am going, it will be due for it's 5K service by Christmas!

    Dave
     
  14. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
    14,620
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    Juan
    Not driving reminds me of my poor old aunts, with lots of money, but afraid to spend any of it. Sure they are influenced by the Great Depression, but the security in knowing they have the funds is what they enjoy. So perhaps for the Garage Queen, the feeling is similar. It is about value and perfection. Not the actual experience of the drive. By the way, where did Garage Queen come from, why not Garage King, let me guess, a Queen does not Drive?

    Mabe us drivers are Garage Kings! I proclaim myself a Garage King!
     
  15. sindo308qv

    sindo308qv F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,575
    miami.fl.
    Full Name:
    sindo
    Jeez, you should see my '84 308. 72,000 miles. People can't believe it's an '84.
    The funny thing is, that with non Ferrari enthusiasts , they say "only 72,000
    miles" and it's an '84? So there you go. By the way she's for sale, extremely well maintained.
     
  16. awhite

    awhite Formula 3
    BANNED

    Jul 13, 2005
    1,229
    still here
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    hmmmm
    Dave,

    Drop that thing off at the ranch with Roland and I, and I can have it ready for the 5K service by next weekend :)

    -A
     
  17. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,533
    Black Hawk, CO
    Full Name:
    Sunny
    I gave up on the queen vs driver threads.

    As long as its detailed, I'm happy. :D
     
  18. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,533
    Black Hawk, CO
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    Sunny
    You can have those 250 miles back from me, if you like.

    On second thought, hell no!

    If you can't sell it, drive it. :D Flip the 8, keep the 12.. I know that doesn't help you but its what I'd do.

    Sunny
     
  19. mw575

    mw575 F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2001
    2,924
    Lake Oswego,Or
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    Martin J Weiner,M.D.
    Martin--thanks
    Sunny-after having gotten the 430 at MSRP I would be persona non grata if I flipped it.Anyhow I want to drive it not flip it-It's one hell of a machine.
     
  20. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,533
    Black Hawk, CO
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    Sunny
    That 575 of yours is BEAUTIFUL. It will sell. Someone in or related to this community will realize it soon.

    Did you start a thread with your impressions on the 430? We know its one hell of a machine, but what are your thoughts in detail to make you reliquish the 12 and arguably one of Maranello's best of everything in one?

    Cheers,
    Sunny
     
  21. v15ben

    v15ben Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2004
    1,364
    Yorkshire, UK
    Full Name:
    Ben
    I don't have an Fcar (yet) but the way I see it is this. I would be prepared to do lots of hard work, long hours and graft so that I can afford my dream car in the future. When I achieve this dream car, I want to enjoy the vehicle I have purchased as intended by the manufacturer and IMO it was made to be driven so why not do that!
    I appreciate why some people keep garage queens, but I guess that it is a question of whether you can afford to simply buy a Ferrari and basic maintainence, or whether you can afford to use it as much as you want and throw as much cash at it as it needs to be perfect.
    I know of a Murcielago in the Uk with over 20k miles in less than a year - the majority of Lambos and Fcars would never achieve that sort of mileage, but the owner loves the car and loves to drive it so why not. Sure it'll be a massive loser on depreciation but I suppose it depends on whether depreciation is that important. As someone said before, you don't buy an Fcar for the profits :D
     
  22. Pong

    Pong Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    796
    Thailand
    Full Name:
    Pong
    In my case, I tend to find a car that get regularly driven...my old 512TR had about 27,000km when I bought it, and it ran so well with no problem regarding engine. However, I got my '04 CS with about 600km on the clock. That's like buying a brand new car with some discount.
     
  23. mw575

    mw575 F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2001
    2,924
    Lake Oswego,Or
    Full Name:
    Martin J Weiner,M.D.
    Sunny,
    Track day here is Mon sept 12th.After having the 430 out at Portland Int Raceway I'll write my impressions.
     
  24. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2002
    26,107
    Portland, Oregon
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    Don
    Marty, I think the problem is not so much the mileage as the fact that it's a V-12, and specifically that it's a 575. If it was a V-8 with similar mileage, I don't think the hit would be nearly as bad.

    I would love to buy a new Ferrari, but the cars I prefer (612, for example) have tremendous depreciation, and I just can't justify that sort of hit.

    The upcoming 575 replacement probably doesn't help things either.
     
  25. mw575

    mw575 F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2001
    2,924
    Lake Oswego,Or
    Full Name:
    Martin J Weiner,M.D.
    Don,
    I agree with you.The 12's have only a 2yr warranty which is a big factor in its depreciation.
    What I am somewhat surprised at is: I lowered the price 10-15K less than the other '03 575's on the market and still it hasn't sold. I may just have to keep it!
     

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