Gear oil for stubborn F355 box | FerrariChat

Gear oil for stubborn F355 box

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by rsdavidson, Sep 19, 2011.

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  1. rsdavidson

    rsdavidson Rookie

    Jul 24, 2010
    14
    I have looked through the threads on benefits of various 355 gearbox oils - RL 75W90NS, RL Superlightweight Shockproof, Royal Purple, etc. I have now tried the RL 75W90 and RP GearMax myself, with no great improvement over the dealer's Shell.

    My problem is not the typical hard 1-2 shift when cold, rather it is hard going N-1 from a stop when hot (around town or spirited driving) and general stubbornness changing gears when hot. They can always be found, but sometimes need persuasion.

    I recall posts by Brian Crall indicating that he had success with RL MTL in stiff F355 boxes (even though it is GL4, not GL5), and I have also seen good reports using RL Mt-90. Of the two references, does anyone know if he was specifically recommending the MT-90 (75W90) or the MTL (70W80)? The MTL seems a bit thin when 90 weight is specced.

    Brian has not seemed active here lately, so I don't know if he will jump in or not. Anyone's thoughts are appreciated!
     
  2. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,576
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    You many wanna give Amsoil a try.
     
  3. Darolls

    Darolls F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 2, 2003
    7,782
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    Sparky
    At this point I would doubt the gear oil is causing the problem. Have you taken a look at the syncros and shifter/clutch adjustments?
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,415
    socal
    Most go right to changing gear oils before making sure the shifter is aligned right first because it is easier to throw some oil in. No change means it is something else. so make sure the shifter is aligned right first then play with oils. If for example when heal toe downshifts are difficult when you are rev matching I'd deffinately look at alignment. Also motormounts that are bad throw alignment off too at the shifter. Sometimes if you don't have the knowledge have a pro look at it.
     
  5. luvair

    luvair Formula 3
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2005
    1,501
    +1. I found Amsoil Severe Gear oil 75W-90 to be excellent.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,144
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #6 Steve Magnusson, Sep 20, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2011
    One easy test is to select a higher gear from N when stopped, and then quickly go from that higher gear into 1st -- if it easily goes into 1st (when going from N to 1st when stopped is difficult), that's a sign that your clutch is not disengaging well/completely; if it's still trouble, you know nothing more, but at least you are not dirty ;)
     
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,267
    As FBB said, this is not an oil issue.

    Are you leaving the clutch OUT while waiting for the light? As in: wait with clutch pedal high, depress clutch, shift into 1, raise clutch?
     
  8. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    Or as a long shot, meet up with another 355 owner to make sure the effort you have to exert isn't normal. I don't know the 355 gearbox or if you've owned others of these cars but they can be a bit firm to shift. I question mine at times but others that are familar including two different techs say it is proper and normal.
     
  9. rsdavidson

    rsdavidson Rookie

    Jul 24, 2010
    14
    Thanks all for your thoughts and suggestions. I shot a PM to FBB, as I think there may be something to his thoughts on clutch linkage adjustment. The roughness or firmness up and down the pattern may just be the nature of the beast, as has been suggested. May not be a fluid issue at all, since none has made a real difference.

    Regarding Mitch's post, I can always downshift all the way to 1st without excessive stress - even when shifting into 1st at a *very* slow roll - and then hold the clutch in while waiting for a light, traffic, etc. Standing on the clutch at a dead stop is not my preference, though, but is work-around #1. The other two work-arounds seem to be with the clutch disengaged at a complete stop, say at a traffic light, to double clutch before going back to 1st from N, or to go from N to 2nd, then back through N to 1st. Both of those always work.

    Based on FBB's thoughts on clutch linkage, I am also thinking that the clutch stop on the back of the pedal swingarm might just need adjusted in slightly, to give just a very little bit of additional clutch disengagement in neutral. Minding the Shop Manual, will not go so far as to feel that the disengagement is stressing the clutch.
     
  10. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

    Jun 8, 2008
    8,237
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Which do you recommend, Mitch? I always throw it in Neutral and let the clutch out - too much wear on the TB the other way.
     
  11. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,560
    Ontario, Canada
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    Mike
    I agree that it may not be the oil that is causing the problem.
     
  12. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,267
    Correct. If the clutch is depressed durring the wait, the throw-out bearing has avoidable stress along wiht the seals, slave and master cylinders,...

    Stop, gear in neutral clutch out.
    When light is about to go green: clutch in, shift into 1st, wait for light, release clutch smoothly.
     
  13. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    Sounds like typical symptoms of a not fully disengaging clutch. Could be anything from a bad T/O bearing to air in the hydraulics, even a dampening spring fallen out of the clutch disc. Best try the clutch bleed procedure first. Is the reservoir topped up?
     
  14. rsdavidson

    rsdavidson Rookie

    Jul 24, 2010
    14
    I pressure bled the clutch and brakes a few weeks ago and thought the same, that I may have introduced some air somehow. I bled the clutch again two days ago and didn't get any air at the far end bleeder, but stepped on the clutch lightly a few times with the pressure bleeder attached, and did get a few bubbles that came up the line, so maybe that was part of the problem. I've never thought to do that -- nudge the pedal with the bleeder on -- but my curiosity about some air maybe being in the system made me do it. I'm going to try checking the clutch stop adjustment and the linkage adjustment over the next couple days and will report back!
     
  15. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,415
    socal
    Those are not the sysmptoms I typically experience with air in the clutchline. However, the clutch is easily bleed. I personally have never had good luck with a one man bleed unless I pressurize the master or do the two man bleed. I one man pressure bleed trackside because I'm by myself. At home I always two man bleed. Two man works better than one. The much beloved Motive bleeders have never worked for me.
     
  16. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
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    Greg
    +1 - a willing and patient assistant simply cannot be beat when it comes to bleeding!
     
  17. TMan

    TMan Formula Junior

    May 13, 2006
    385
    Colorful Colorado
    Full Name:
    Steve
    +2
     
  18. rsdavidson

    rsdavidson Rookie

    Jul 24, 2010
    14
    Checked the linkage as advised and made a minor pedal adjustment in the max travel which is within the 115mm-120mm spec. I'm not noticing the same resistance N-1, which I'm thinking may have been an incomplete disengagement. Most likely will have it looked over further in my next Major, since the clutch linkage will be apart anyhow. Thanks for the help.
     
  19. RossoC360

    RossoC360 Formula Junior
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    Buffalo NY
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    Jason
    This thread is 7 years old. I think he worked it out by now lmao.
     
  20. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    The Bad Guy
    Even then, I still like having options.
     
  21. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    The Bad Guy
    What oil do you recommend? Post up the info here.
     
  22. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    17,940
    USA
    He resurrected a 7 year old thread to promote SWEPCO lubricants that he represents...review his post history and see he does this a lot, looking for opportunities to hawk Swepco. ;)
     
    RossoC360 likes this.

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