Gearbox DSG Maintenance

Yes

 

I changed the oil in the clutch system and gearbox at 48000km's (30000 mls) there was little or no dirt in both of them, clutch oil looked a bit darker then new oil.

the instructions say to put it in reverse and brake, but for the gearbox I doubt this is correct, I drained about 6,8l from the clutch and 3.2l from the gearbox

 

What specific fluids are used? And is there a separate reservoir for gear oil?


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Shell DCT-F3 for the clutch system, a good equivalent is: Kroon Oil SP Matic 2072

Shell TF DCT-F3 is a high performance dual wet
clutch transmission fluid. Shell TF DCT-F3 was
specially developed for lubrication of the dual wet
clutch and the hydraulic system of GETRAG’s
Powershift 7DCL750 transmissions

For the gearbox Ferrari advises Shell Spirax S5 75W-90

 

Posting an update. I had an opportunity to look at a tear-down of a DCT, and given the number of internal solenoids, I highly recommend periodic replacement of the fluid. New fluid won’t help with the internal sensors, but it could help keep the solenoids working correctly and not binding or getting gummed up due to compromised fluid. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login


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Thanks for sharing the pics! Any close up pics of solenoid part markings or position sensor or speed sensor part markings? How many miles did this DCT have before it was taken apart and what was the part that failed? Thanks for any help!

~Ant

 

I was told by my tech that the gear box fluid(s) are changed when the service is due

 

I was told that the DCT fluid is never changed ... so what now ?

 

Seems as it then differs from tech to tech or even country from country?
I will check my documentations later to see if it really has been changed and not only words from my tech

 

As mentioned in other threads, one can send out a sample of the DCT fluids for analysis. If the fluid is no longer in spec then it makes sense to change the fluid. But deeper to the truth, the fluid is not at fault but rather showing the chemical or mineral or metal contaminants of the part or parts which are failing.

Ferrari/Getrag has stated that the fluid is a lifetime fill.

What is a lifetime? From a legal standpoint that might be defines as a certain number of years and or mileage. Laws vary from country to country. In the USA, perhaps a lifetime for a car is 10 years or 100,000 miles.

In fact several owners have already done fluid analysis and found the fluid to be in spec with very high mileage,

Then it appears that the electrical failure whether wiring or sensor or solenoids, are due to other causes, such as heat, or faulty design or or manufacturing defects or currently unknown flaws

 

So talked to my tech again today and was told that the fluid is checked every time the car is in for service but not changed as the oil is a long life oil.

I was then told that changing the fluid could cause more harm than any good.

On the 430:s it was a different story though.

 

If it's worth anything, I was told half-jokingly by a BMW tech that BMW Lifetime fluid is the life of the transmission. So when it goes bang, there's your "lifetime". Tech advised changing fluids would prolong the life of things.

 

This was off a Challenge car, and I don't have any additional specific info other than a critical solenoid/sensor panel inside the unit had failed and was a very expensive part, with its constituent solenoids and sensors not sold separately. It was just a guess, but the failures seem to be caused by high heat and vibration. All components have a MTBF, which also means some will fail earlier than others, due to all sorts of factors including operating conditions, and manufacturing tolerances. It's also possible some fail due to variance between different suppliers of the same parts.

I'm not sure how the tech can simply "check" the fluid when it's in for service except to possibly note the level and whether it appears badly discolored or contaminated. Unless you're willing to wait and pay for a true oil analysis, it seems much easier and cost-effective to just change the fluid at every annual service or every other annual.

I'm also puzzled how changing the fluid could possibly do more harm than good, if done competently and using the correct fluid. I suppose it's possible that someone over or under fills the unit, cross-threads the plug(s), or puts in the wrong fluid, but that shouldn't be expected to happen, so much so that the dealer recommends against changing the fluid. What does it say about the dealer's confidence in their techs that they discourage customers from doing a fluid change? Fresh, correct fluid can't otherwise cause more harm than good.

Finally, "lifetime" fills are debatable. If it means the fluid can never cause any malfunction and will wear out long before some component fails, that's one thing. But if it only means that the fluid isn't likely to cause any problems before the warranty runs out, that's entirely another thing. There are no standards I'm aware of for making a "lifetime fill" claim, so unless something bad happens when you change the fluid, or there is some high likelihood of a failure caused by changing fluid, I suggest changing it.

 

I suspect heat and/or vibration is a factor as well. I changed my transmission fluid last December and sent a sample out for analysis and with 24k miles, the report stated it looked good. However, I just felt that it couldn't hurt to change out 8 year old transmission fluid, so I did.

I was hoping we can figure out who supplies the various sensors and solenoids, and if there were any subsequent improvements in the internal electronics in later model years. It would be awesome if we can locate the component suppliers for future service needs. I posted a thread in the technical discussion sub-forum with a pic of a position sensor from the 458 transmission, hoping for any folks with info to chime in. I'm not sure how changing fluids can do more harm than good. Ash, perhaps you can follow up with your tech for additional info?

 

Was there a particular part which failed?
If so what was the model year and he mileage and the symptoms or warning lights?

How much was the repair?

 

I will collect the 458 from the winter idle today so will talk face to face with my tech again concerning the claim he did that it does more harm than good to change the oil. Will get back once I've talked to him.

He is the most well know and respected tech in Sweden when it comes to Ferrari's and Lamborghinis. Owners of very special models incl LaF and F40s och F50s leave their cars to him rather than the general agent in Sweden for Ferraris. Even the techs at the general agent call him from time to time as he has deep knowledge about these cars

 

I booked my 2010 458 in for a service at Graypauls, Nottingham in the UK recently. I asked the service dept for the cost and found it to be about £200 more expensive than last year so I asked for the reason and was told the brake fluid and gearbox oil was going to be changed on this service.

 

Hi! My dealer is one of the largest and most well respected in the world. They have a race team and they have won IMSA and Le Mans two years in a row racing in AM class with the 458 and now with the 488. Their mechanics are trained to service the DCT
And yes I’ve seen plenty of La Ferrari’s and other unique and rare Ferrari’s being serviced your them.

They say no DCT fluid change is recommended by the Ferrari Factory.

Perhaps gearbox oil and DCT fluid are two different subjects.

Anyway, perhaps you can send out a sample of the fluid they are changing to be analyzed and if you do please post the report with the year and mileage.

It would be an interesting to see!

 

That's maybe it, some confusion from my side then

 

Just had my Italia in for an airbag recall at the local F dealer. While there I asked the question of replacing the DCT fluid and their response was they recommended changing the gear fluid in the tranny but they do not access the clutch side fluid.

 

they should access the fluid that goes to the clutch packs, because the other fluid is for the differential only. It's nice that the 458 uses 2 separate oils for the trans. It also uses 2 separate transmission coolers so they feel that fluid can go a long time without replacing (very unlikely to overheat with street use)

 

The gear lubricant in the gearbox not only lubricates the differential, but all of the gears, bearings, synchros and shift forks in the mechanical portion of the transmission. It is the fluid that has the most particulate matter from the wear of the hard parts of the gearbox. If you look at your maintenance schedule in your manual, you will see that Ferrari recommends changing the gear oil at 100,000km (62,500mi).

Ferrari has no recommended replacement interval for the DTC hydraulic fluid in the gearbox up to the 160,000km (100,000mi) service, only checking the level every service.

 

We have a minimum of ten 458's in our local club, and thankfully none had any transmission trouble yet (or any other "real" trouble). My advice would be to just keep $12k aside for repairs and not worry, and enjoy the car.

 

I'm new to the forum and still learning how threads work, so apologies if my similar post on another thread is redundant. On my '13 458 Spider, 16k miles, I have had an intermittent, random and inaudible Clutch Overheated light on the left display for several years. I have noticed no performance or degradation issues whatsoever. No smells or noises. No pattern as to the driving conditions under which it illuminates. The light simply illuminates then goes away in seconds. I have been "told" it is likely a bad sensor, and that sounds plausible from the comments so far. I think my next step is to determine 1) whether a diagnostic can identify the actual and specific cause without also having to open the box and 2) if there could be a condition that needs to be addressed so the gearbox/clutch are not further damaged (if they have been damaged at all). Any advice is appreciated. thank you.