Gearbox fluid change interval

Mitch you're funny, but he did say air the composition of which is,

N2
O2
CO2
H2
Ar
Xe
Ne
He
Kr
SO2
CH4
N2O
O3
NO2
I2
CO
NH3

And as we know air contains water vapor. Sooooooo yeah pretty much anywhere there is air.

 

If that is happening --- and, I'll take you at your experienced word that it is --- then that is entirely different from the "routine service interval" rationale for changing the oil.

And, it is certainly a good enough reason to change the oil frequently regardless of other time / mileage considerations.

Are there retro-fixes out there for this design defect --- either from Ferrari or on the aftermarket ? Any TSB's issued ?

 

???

If I send you some lead will you change it into gold for me, please ?

 

All that splash lubricated experience people have with transmissions is not really applicable to a pump lubricated system like a Ferrari, like the pros are saying. That pump and all the heat from the exhaust system and cats really beats up the transaxle oil. Add in the possibility of coolant/transaxle oil cross contamination and you V8 owners should change the coolant annually, too.

Oh yeah, F1 fluid needs to be changed, too, even though the maintenance schedule does not mention it until the 599 maintenance schedule (3 years) came out.

 

The later transmissions that seem to have to worst of the heat problems also have rather small gears for the power output. Especially the ring and pinion. I have always believed that was the major source of the heat and breakdown of the lubricants. Daytona, TR, BB, even the 308/328 had oil pumps and didn't have the heat associated problems of say a 360 but in contrast had large gears. My observation anyway. They had their own lubricant related issues but serious oil degradation like we see these days hasn't really been a problem.

Different design syncros too. Ferrari never seems to use standard tried and true designs and all have shown oil sensitivity, in different ways but definitely oil sensitivity.


Yea, F1 oil. Lifetime oil. Lasts the lifetime (or dictates it) of the components.

 

Guys...
We are not coming to this forum to argue with everybody. We are coming to exchange information and hopefully to learn something.

 

My point is that rust will form if the only substance present is H2O; anything and everything else is not relevant.

 

So what is the correct interval for a 308/328? I was under the impression that once every two years for trans oil was correct, assuming around 3000 miles per year.

-F

 

Another variable, especially for the low mileage car, is how long are the trips? If you drive 1000 miles per year and do it in 500 trips there is going to be a lot more contamination than the same 1000 miles distributed over 25 trips. I know when ever I drive my F car I plan to drive it long enough to get it up to full operating temps, this helps with exhaust system life also.

 

This is the most important post of this thread. It explains why some conventional wisdom is being turned upside down, and specifies the scope.

 

Rifledriver, what trans oil do you recommend for the 308 qv?

 

I would not question Brian when he offers advice. He gets his hands dirty fixing these cars. From what I have read about him and his posts he is extremely knowledgeable. A Ferrari cannot be compared with any other high performance vehicle. These cars run extreme heat and all components are under stress that most cars never see in their lifetime. Changing fluids is cheap insurance its also called preventative maintenance. For a rarely driven vehicle I believe regular fluid changes are more important.

 

What dos the Manual say for the 308/328?

 

Always these fairytales .... .

Modern Audi performance engines have their turbochargers within the cylinder-V (i.e. within the top of the engine and not at the sides). Consider further use on German Autobahn, i.e. permanent full throttle for considerable periods and in hot weather also. THAT are thermal engineering problems ....

A Ferrari is a car just like any other high performance car. Making a myth of it helps make money, of course . Any (!) performance car needs specialists knowledge and experience (the latter mainy with respect to design flaws ).

The service intervalls provided by all super sportscars manufacturers are provided as "worst case scenarios", that is, for example, use on German Autobahn with frequent and long during speeds over 250 km/h. Combined with "sporty" acceleration and braking attitudes. Through the whole year and at any weather.

This in turn also justifies to prolong some service intervals, if a) use of the car is moderate in attitude (e.g. rather rarely over 200 km/h, hi over there on the other side of the pond, "normals" get sick at that speed already ), b) storage is in a non-humid garage with more or less constant termperatures throughout the year (no strong fluctuations).

 

You can always tell a German

But you can't tell him much.

 

Are you sure that I am a German?

It is true, though, that no one can easily tell me fairytales, at least in the technological field .

The issue is somewhat different. If the service provider does not himself know how a car is been used by the owner, he would be crazy to advise anything else than official service schedules. The owner, for example, does not necessarily mention frequent trackdays or the like, or other "abuse".

Thus, it is, I believe, the responsibility of the owner to judge himself how he has used and stored the car. If, for example, one has attended to trackdays and spent hours around the track under full throttle, it is always advisable to have all (oily) fluids changed immediately afterwards (I do at least). Brake inspection out of service schedules is also very advisable .

If, on the other hand, the owner has just had frequent weekend joy drives along US roads at fine weather and more or less stuck to speed limits, and the car is otherwise stored in a heated/dehumidified garage, then it seems justified to consider stretching gear oil change intervals.

P.S.: Or must I ask in the workshop since when the large barrel with oil had been opened .... ? If since 6 months, must I then change oil after further 6 months already? .

 

That reminds me when searching for a XJ220. On all I saw, virtually nothing had been done for at least one decade (so-called "collector cars"). With such "service intervals" you indeed will go into all kinds of trouble.

Since then the phrase "collector car" means to me nothing else than condition 4 at best (with respect to technical components).

 

Totally agree with you BJJ. These people or dealers selling 'collector' status cars etc, hardly driven, low miles can be a persons worst nightmare, right beside a hard driven clean car.
We all share advice, our locations can have a huge impact on the vehicles mechanical status. High humidity-areas, dry areas are factors. My car had all new fluids when I bought it, other then gearbox. So, it's worth it to me to know it's all changed by me now, knowing the type of fluids and recorded for next change, cheap insurance and peace of mind!

 

Brian,

I have a Maserati GranSport for which Maserati recommends a 2 year fluid change interval on the ZF gearbox. Should I be doing annual instead? I live in SE Florida and drive about 3,000 miles a year.

Thanks,

Scott

 

Sorry I have no information or experience with modern Maserati's or their transmissions so can't comment.

 

Basically, it comes down to this:
A) if you want you car to last longer than the manufacture wants your car to last, change the fluids more often
B) if you are going to dump the car on the used market while still in warrante, you don't have to do jack ****.

 

Typically in the US, brake fluid changes are ignored. "Oh, I never heard of that". Automatic transmission engineer told me that these quick oil change stations that push automatic fluid changes for profit. That they sometimes cause more harm than good. This could stir up contaminants that were best left alone.

 

I had my Touareg in for a service last week. I called to tell them to flush the brake fluid and they acted surprised. Said I just had it done two years ago...

 

That is exactly the advice I give friends. I am a 'buy and hold" guy when it comes to cars, so I am "old school" when it comes to maintenance, and change fluids much more often than manufacturer recommends. My friends all get new cars, either right at, or shortly after warranty expires...I tell them only do the maintenance outlined in the manual...no reason to do more, if you are flipping the car with less than 50k miles on it.

My current BMW has 230k miles on it. Original engine and transmission, drives perfectly.