Gearing up for major | FerrariChat

Gearing up for major

Discussion in '348/355' started by jjtjr, Nov 23, 2022.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    I am getting ready for my 355 major and procuring the necessary items to complete it. I thought I would share a photo of the first "Genuine Ferrari" part needed to start. :)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    zstyle, willrace, marioz and 9 others like this.
  2. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,637
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Ha ha ha ha! What is often overlooked is the thickness of the part that is needed. :)
     
  3. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    It's OK we'll get through it together
     
  4. Exvetteguy

    Exvetteguy Karting

    Aug 5, 2012
    91
    Wolcott Ct
    Full Name:
    Eric Schifilliti
    LMAO...You Only Have The Parts...Still Need Another Bag For Labor!:D
     
  5. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    Indeed. The more neglected the car, the thicker this part will need to be.
     
    26street likes this.
  6. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    That bag will need to look like this.[​IMG]
     
    Exvetteguy likes this.
  7. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    Just an update. The engine is out and getting ready to degree the cams and replace tensioners, tensioner bearings, and belts. Also will be replacing those bulged CV boots and some other 27 year old items while I'm at it. So far, (knock-on-wood) everything is going well and haven't found anything that looks out of the ordinary. I'm hoping the project will continue in this direction.
     
    26street and KevZep like this.
  8. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    Getting ready to reinstall the engine back into car this weekend, and hopefully will get her put back into her winter spot in the garage and thus freeing up the lift. I have to say that degreeing the cams wasn't that bad. I think the hardest part was getting the dial indicator rod to sit on the follower (tappet) edge and stay at a right angle especially on the exhaust cams. But once that tweaking was done, it was able to be followed out just as the WSM outlined. I checked all 4 cams before changing the belts, cam seals, tensioner bearings and tensioners and then after. It turns out that they must have been done before because they were all dead nuts except for the #8 exhaust was a 1/2 of a degree out. I made sure to check each one several times to be sure I was coming up with the same measurement each time. I can definitely see that if your dial indicator isn't sitting perfectly you can end up with some pretty erroneous numbers and get confused. This is where having a lot of patience really pays off. Anyways, I would like to give a word of thanks to Kenny D for posting his videos as I found them to be very helpful and would recommend that anyone doing this for the first time watch these and use them as a guide along side of your WSM. I have degreed cams before on small and big block chevy's, but this engine is no such animal. When you see that these followers need to be within .06mm or .002" and that translates to 1/2 of a degree on the crank, it becomes clear that there is little to no room for error. I will post when the job is complete.
     
    INTMD8, 26street, audi_328 and 3 others like this.
  9. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    I'd highly recommend you get your fuel injectors ultrasonically cleaned whilst you have the engine out, made my car run a lot smoother (especially at lower RPM's) once done. Cheap and easy job and will prevent your injectors clogging up over time.
     
    Qavion likes this.
  10. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    Well, I was able to get the car put back together over the New Years weekend, and after completing I can say that it really isn't that bad of a job as long as you take your time and don't rush anything. I will post some pics that I took along the way. The whole "lock and swap" vs "degreeing" argument is really unfounded by my perspective at least, as it was relatively easy to just do it the way it is outlined in the WSM and it is nice to know that after you are done the cams are timed where they should be. I will mention a few findings that I feel are worth noting; the first of which was after removing the timing belt covers I noticed the 5-8 side had a lot of slack on the opposite side of the tensioner. As soon as I rotated the engine clockwise the tensioner moved out and took up the slack, and the belt appeared to be tensioned properly. As a side note, both tensioners were replaced in 2003. Another snag worth noting was upon bleeding the brakes, I was able to vacuum bleed the LR just fine but when I got to the RR I only got about 1/2 pint of fluid out and that was it. I put my wife in the car to attempt to manually bleed and when she pushed the pedal down, I had no rear brakes at all and couldn't get any fluid back there. It was only after starting the car that I was able to resume bleeding, so I assume that the ABS system was preventing me from getting rear brakes due to movement of a valve. Pressure bleeding may have been a better option. The clutch bled just fine.
    And if anyone replaces their coolant hoses with the ones provided in the Ricambi 30K kit, make sure you tighten the bejesus out of those hose clamps to prevent coolant leaks! I thought I would break those clamps going that tight, but they are pretty stout and were able to stop the leaks only after reaching full tightness.
     
  11. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,666
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    You have a 95 with Teves ABS. Rear brakes can not be pressure bleed. Rear brakes are activated by pressure from the ABS system. Has to be bleed with key on to run the ABS pump and then pedal pressed to open the read brake valve, so to speak. No need to pump the pedal, just depress and hold and fluid will flow through the rears when you open the bleeds.
     
    SoCal1 and jjtjr like this.
  12. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    Well kinda too late, but I don't really have any driveability issues right now. I'm not 100% sure what the 355 uses for injectors, but I know GM used multec injectors that were self cleaning and couldn't be cleaned. But considering that you had yours done I will keep that in mind should any issues arise.
     
  13. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,637
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Interisting... the last time I bled the 348 Teves brakes, which was about a year ago, using a Motive type pressure bleeder, I did not have to press the brake pedal. I turned the key on to activate the ABS pump, cracked the rear bleeders and fluid flowed at the same rate as the fronts did. No brake pedal press was needed. Wonder if the 355 Teves is different perhaps.
     
    SoCal1 likes this.
  14. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,666
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    #14 johnk..., Jan 3, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2023

    Perhaps there is some incorrect info posted on Chat. I just read the manual for the Teves MK II system and it says when using a pressure bleeder you must vent the ABS pressure first by pumping the brakes at least 20 times with ignition off. (Not sure why because with your foot off the pedal all 4 wheel's calipers must be vented to the reservoir. ) Then bring the pressure bleeder pressure to 15 psi and bleed as a conventional system. If you don't have a pressure bleeder then the ignition must be on and the brake pedal depressed to bleed the rears.

    John was trying vacuum bleeding so I figured the latter would apply. But didn't state it clearly.
     
  15. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,637
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I'll do that next time for good measure. Pressing the brake with key off has the effect of draining the accumulator "I think", maybe that's what they are after.
     
  16. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    Actually this is not the case, I successfully bled my rear brakes using a negative pressure bleeder - it was a very easy and straightforward process, didn't need to turn the key on - just popped the bleeders and used the vacuum. Same process for the clutch.

    Flow was quite slow, but nothing unexpected given the length of the lines from the reservoir to the bleeder.
     
  17. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    They are Bosche based injectors and are pretty much unavailable anywhere new. This is why it's a very good idea to clean them at every opportunity as to prevent slow build up over time. Once they become completely clogged they can be real swines to get working properly again. They can be cleaned with regular ultrasonic injector cleaners/flow rate testers.
     
    jjtjr likes this.
  18. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,666
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Yes, I went back and read the Teves manual. It doesn't address vacuum bleeding but it does discuss pressure bleeding and says it works front and rear. It also discusses using the ABS pressure for the rears if you don't have a pressure bleeder. However, it has been reported on FChat that pressure bleeding doesn't work on the rears. So chalk it up to bad info posted on FChat from DIY "experts". For pressure bleeding it says 15 psi.
     
    SoCal1 likes this.
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,412
    socal
    Can't imagine anyone saying we can't pressure bleed rears. We have been doing it since 1989 with these cars. There are several processes for bleeding. All methods are pressure bleeding except when vacuum bleeding is applied. Vacuum is the least effective method because it is hard to control air leaks from the bleed screw. The hardest pedal is done 2 man. Next best is 1 man pressure through master. We use the latter method at the track when no one is around. If there is another competent body we always use the person if we can.
     
    fjb and SoCal1 like this.
  20. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    15psi sounds about right. I've done it on several occasions now and it's gone fine both times, very easy process. Of course it's important to make sure you've opened the cap on the reservoir.

    Clutch was also very simple, just a slightly larger nipple if I recall. Same reservoir which makes it easy.

    Most of the issues with TEVES relate to the pressure pump and electrical/solenoid system for the ABS.. Don't ask how I know, but this forum saved my bacon on a few occasions. The system is archaic.
     
  21. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,666
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Doesn't matter at this point, but there was a thread on it and I remember who posted it and another person who was discussing it but I can't find it with search.

    Here is the section from the Teves manual that I final got around to reading thanks to this thread. ;)

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    To post some other info I gathered while doing my major, here are some before and after measurements;
    Old belt #1-4 intake was 2.41mm @ 0.5 degree ATDC. #1-4 exhaust was 2.29mm @ 2.5 ATDC.
    Old belt #5-8 intake was 2.41mm @ 0 degrees and #5-8 exhaust was 2.29mm @ 0.5 degrees BTDC
    When fitting new belts I was able to get those numbers as close to zero degrees as I could within less than half of a degree on the wheel. I can see why folks who set 4 cam engines for racing like to use bigger degree wheels, the one I used was a Comp cams I believe 14".
    I attempted to attach a video of the 5-8 belt that was loose on the drive side after I removed the belt covers but it was too big of a file. And in a previous post I mentioned that the tensioners were last replaced in 2003, but after looking again in my service history I found they were replaced again in 2010. But as I understand it the tensioner in NOT supposed to allow the plunger to be pushed back in, only out as the belt wears. And when I rotated the engine clockwise the tensioner clearly extended to take up the slack, so after I shut the engine off the crankshaft must have slightly rotated counter-clockwise and the tensioner plunger retracted allowing slack to develop on the backside (drive) of the belt.
    Also, another worth-mentioning item found in the WSM is that they want you to stretch the new belts and then "run" the engine before rechecking. Boy that would be a lot of work!
     
  23. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    EDIT Just as an fyi the last major was done in 2016 with belts and tensioner bearings. I did see some grease escaping from the bearing seals, and the tensioners were over 2.5mm showing that some belt stretch was there. So the 5-7 year interval would seem to hold up as a good timeframe, unless the car is tracked or stored outdoors in the weather.
     
  24. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,662
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    They really mean manually turning the engine over a few revolutions, not running the engine.
    And it is absolutely fine if one of the belts seems a little loose while the other is tight. Somewhere along the way, it will be that way. It all depends on when you shut off the engine.
     
  25. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    676
    Vermont
    Full Name:
    john truskowski
    OK, but I was with the understanding that the tensioners were only able to extend and not retract under normal operation. In fact, the only way to retract them is to remove them and push them back in with a bench vice. But maybe there is some allowable retraction?
     

Share This Page