General F1 Discussion: Past, present drivers & teams. | FerrariChat

General F1 Discussion: Past, present drivers & teams.

Discussion in 'F1' started by Tifoso1, Aug 1, 2007.

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  1. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,602
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    I see Mika's career differently as you do and you can probably see already that I prefer to see things from a more humanistic POV, considering that even know some treats the drivers as if they are Gods among men/women, the reality is that they are still very human, with all the human emotions and traits.

    As you know and most people will tend to agree, the first win is similar to the first title, they are the most difficult to come by. Once done, drivers "learn" how to win after the illusive maidan victory, be it a psychological or whatever reason. DC was fortunate enough to be with Williams early in his career, as oppose to Mika. Mika was young at the time and on top of it, I feel the serious accident he suffered earlier, took a lot out of him. At least that was what I remembered at the time, he had the speed, the attitude and was simply just a little young and still recovering. IIRC, the team bosses, the drivers and the media all knew that Mika has what it takes, will it happen or can he make the transition from a GP driver to GP winner to GP title holder was only a matter of time, provided that he was in the correct situation. As oppose to DC, IMO, had already showed what he can do and I felt that McLaren only acquire him as an insurance policy and also to provide some experience of winning to the team since Senna was departing for Williams at the time. Very few drives that I can recall was mature ON THE RACE TRACK right out of the gate or early in their career, IMO, FA is the most recent one following MS, and their titles are the proof.

    Formula one teams are first and foremost about competition. What works for one team doesn't always mean it can work for another. MS's situation at Ferrari was different than any other driver's was before or since. Even now with Kimi and Felipe they no longer operate that way. Teammates should be allowed to race each other. Then, going into the last few races, with the title at stake, whomever is in the points lead at the time, should be helped by the other driver. The MS arrangement just seemed to suck all the sport out of it. I mean when you have a car so dominant, and a teammate that can't even race you, then what's the point in that? It got boring for me, and i suspect many others, very quickly.

    F1 has also became big business since the 80's, thanks to Honda. Team's focus is winning titles and they will do whatever they have to. We all know that it is not unusual that a team tells one driver to move over to optimize their situation in the title hunt. Boss tells you to do something, YOU DO IT, as long as it is not something illegal or potentially dangerous. If you don't like it, leave or quit. RB and the rest of the world knew that he can't compete against MS on a regular bases, he is role player on the team, nothing more and nothing less. And again, the idea of one top driver in a team can be, IMO, attributed to Senna's incredible talent and intense competitiveness as he changed the attitude of one of the best drivers of our time, Prost. Whom ironically, was the one that "allowed" or "courted" Senna to McLaren and be his team mate. And look at how selfish Prost also became after the two years with Senna. Incidentally, I too agree with Prost, Mansell and Schumacher on the structure of a team, one top driver and one support driver. In fact, I have often wondered if Prost would have won the 90's title had GB been his team mate instead of NM, as I have always felt that NM was more selfish than GB. This does not mean I like GB better than NM, just that I think GB was a better team mate than NM.

    Our opinion differs here, as we will probably never really know the true. So let's just leave it at that. I will say that IMO, MS is no more a team player than any other great drivers in the past, present and maybe the future.

    FA is a great driver, but again, we differ in our opinion of his behavior off the track. We simply have different preference in who our faviorite driver is or is not. IMO, I prefer drivers/team leaders to be less vocal and more cerebral when it comes to speaking with the public. You may think it is boring, much like the team order thing earlier, but I see it as the nature of the beast and a necessary for a team to be successful and to win titles. Let's just say that if I am starting a F1 team from scratch, MS is the type of driver I had chose over any others. Not that he is my personal favorite, but just the one I feel I can bank my money on and has what it takes to win for my team.

    As for today's F1, as I stated before, I am a Ferrari fan first and driver second. Thus I have no problem of team mates not racing each other until the title is MATHMATICALLY locked up.
     
  2. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

    Oct 17, 2004
    5,701
    New York, NY
    Full Name:
    Luis

    Mika always had the speed. Over one lap especially, but he lacked the maturity and the car to challenge for the title early in his career. I remember him causing quite a few accidents in his early McLaren days before the accident. DC wasn't quite on the same level as Mika. Mika had the advantage on DC in terms of one lap speed. DC was just as good a racer as Mika, however and it was closer than it looked.

    Yes Formula One is a business a huge one, but is it still a sport. You build your team give them the best possible equipment and let them race. I agree with some of what you say but only to a certain point. Ferrari's actions in Austria in 02 was simply too much. Team orders are fine, they do have a place in all forms of racing, but when the title is at stake. In my opinion this sucks all the sport out of it. 2002 was one of the most pointless seasons to watch along with 2004. Boring doesn't even begin to describe those seasons. MS would have won those championships regardless. They didn't need to hold back RB the way they did.

    Berger was more of a team player than Mansell no doubt but Berger knew he'd never beat Senna. They were also good friends which made for a good working relationship. Berger might have done the same for Prost and he would probably have been better than Mansell, but you have to remember Mansell also took points away from McLaren and Senna sometimes. I'll have to watch that season again but Mansell didn't impede Prost too much, if i remember right.

    Our opinions do differ on FA. He is a great driver, no argument there. I will always have respect for someone that speaks his mind, right or wrong. I'd rather have that than someone who always says what he is told to say, or worse says nothing. Sport is nothing without emotion.
     
  3. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,602
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    I remember having a conversation with another fellow F1 fan right before the 1994 season about how much effect a serious accident can do to a driver, his comment was and this is his opinion, it was something like: "Part of the reason Senna is so fast is that he has never been in a real accident, and I am afraid that his first major accident just may be a fatal one. Because he is older now, but still driving and taking risks like a rookie." Sadly, he was right about Senna's first major accident.

    Anyway, the reason I mention this is because IMO, Berger was never the same after his crash at Imola in 1989. He too was highly rated and highly regarded during his time, except that he never lived up to the potential. With that said, it is hard to win a title with Prost, Senna & even Mansell out on the tracks. Very few drivers were able to return to top form after serious accidents, I can only think of a few within the modern era that was able to return to the top: Lauda, Mika & Schumacher. To me, Mika needed to time to get back into F1 and also, deserves a lot more credit than most of the people here gave him for, especially for his title years.

    While I agree that emotion does play a big part in sport, but emotion with little control is nothing but rage and out of control of excessive emotion can be just as detrimental. Schumacher may not be like Alonso, but he is not like Kimi either. Allow me to ask you this: If you are starting a F1 team, with the exception of Aryton Senna, who is the driver (In their prime) you will like to build your team around? For me, it is either Prost or Schumacher. Also, I will like to know your opinion on the famous Senna-Prost accident at Suzuka in 1990. What's your take on Senna's action that day?
     

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