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German Engineering ?

Discussion in 'Other German' started by Formula 1, Mar 26, 2005.

  1. Formula 1

    Formula 1 Formula 3

    Feb 20, 2005
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    Are German made autos really that reliable?

    Yes/No answer please :D

    Yes = German made autos are the most reliable in the world.....nothing can beat a German made car.

    No = There just as reliable as the rest of the world.....nothing special here.
     
  2. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Sep 25, 2002
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    Yes. (from experiance with 4 BMWs)

    By reliable if you mean driveable. I do not count button 1 of 80 stopped working as something against reliablity.

    That said Japanese are better in this one regard. But in my experiance, German cars are more then reliable enough for daily duty without many headaches.
     
  3. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Rookie
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    No (my experience from my current two BMW's). I too accept the occasional electronic glitch as an "it come with the terrority" thing with the sophisticated electronics. But not the litany of other issues.

    A (quasi?) independent source, Consumer's Reports, reported in their April Auto issue that Eurpean make reliability, taken as a whole, has lost ground to the Asian and American makes (and is comfortably in last place). This data comes mostly from reader surverys. BMW trails Audi but is ahead of VW and MB. Who ever thought that Chrysler would be dragging UP MB reliability?

    Drivability is a totally different issue, and exists much more in the eye of the beholder. The Germans, of the mass producers, have a leg up on everyone in this regard, but the gap (from my own test driving experience and comments in the car magazines) seems to have narrowed versus the Asian and American makes.
     
  4. Tyler

    Tyler F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2001
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    No. The German cars I've had(BMWs & Porsches) have been wonderfully engaging and fun cars to drive. However, they have each had little issues that require attention. I've never had one leave me stranded and I've never had a major component fail but the small issues are still ridiculous IMO.

    I've yet to have a car come close to the reliabilty of the LS430. NEVER a problem. Never. No niggling electronic problems, no mechanical issues, no poorly designed parts. Nothing. However, it is also an incredibly uninvolving car to drive.

    What I've never understood is why the Germans can't incorporate some of the Japanese expertise in certain areas. If my Porsche had the electronics from a Lexus I don't think it would affect the driving experience one bit but it would certainly affect my ownership experience in a positive way.
     
  5. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
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    IMO Japanese cars simply are the best, bar none.
     
  6. 911Fan

    911Fan Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2004
    1,291
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    German cars used to be the most reliable on the planet, including the "bulletproof" 911. No more. Too much emphasis on electronic crap which, being software intensive, will always have strange, hard to reproduce (and therefore fix) failure modes. God forbid the driver have to possess any driving skill.

    If you want reliable, the only game in town is Toyota or Honda.

    Curiously, the 911 has been plagued with the dreaded RMS engine problem for years now. I think the accountants have decided it's cheaper to lemon law a few cars than do the proper engineering to actually fix the problem. Porsche is certainly not what it used to be and is no longer worthy of much respect or admiration, imo.
     
  7. ^@#&

    ^@#& F1 World Champ
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    Feb 27, 2005
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    How are BMWs and Mercedes' in the snow?
     
  8. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    No.

    BMW in the shop so many times during the 5 months I had it, I just had to get a Lexus after it.

    Mercedes Benz ate window regulators, crappy hydraulic suspension, faulty electronics.

    Porsche, been the best, but stupid little things, like the passenger door lock internal lever snapping in half...
     
  9. Ferrari0324

    Ferrari0324 F1 Rookie

    Mar 20, 2004
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    Agreed.
     
  10. Seth

    Seth Formula 3

    Feb 8, 2004
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    the older Mercedes and BMWs are the way to go, nothing can stop and old Inline 6 mercedes or BMW, they just last forever
     
  11. ^@#&

    ^@#& F1 World Champ
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    Anybody wanna answer my question above about the snow???? I'm trying to convince my dad to buy a BMW and my mom to buy a Mercedes.
     
  12. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Convince them to get Toyotas. It will leave you with a bigger inheritance...
     
  13. ^@#&

    ^@#& F1 World Champ
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    Feb 27, 2005
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    NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate asian cars. My parents only buy hondas. NEVER WILL THEY OWN ONE AGAIN. I won't let them get one.
     
  14. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Been there, done that with BMW and MB, crap cars.

    But if you want to look "cool", I guess it is worth the expense.

    Honda makes great cars.
     
  15. ^@#&

    ^@#& F1 World Champ
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    Feb 27, 2005
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    I just don't like asian cars. There is something that is just ew about them. Even with leather seats they are not comfortable. The engines are nothing. And they aren't fun to drive.
     
  16. Seth

    Seth Formula 3

    Feb 8, 2004
    1,532
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    for the snow get a 4Matic mercedes or a 325Xi BMW, something like that, then its 4 wheel drive... dont know exctally how much better it will be than say an audi, but its 4 wheel drive, and it doesnt really snow much here so i dont really care/know
     
  17. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Rookie
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    My M3 has done well in the snow--but any car with a good traction/stability control should be OK. Clearly, AWD/4WD will do better, and any car with dedicated snow tires will do better.
     
  18. Tyler

    Tyler F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2001
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    Agreed, but if you're advising an accord I'd recommend an 05 Toyota Avalon for just a little more $$. Far superior to the accord.
     
  19. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    The new Avalon is on my want list. It looks nice, it offers sub-Lexusian luxury at a Toyota price, and can get down the road easily with 280 HP. It's not a performance car, but 99% of the driving I do doesn't warrant needing a sports car. That remaining 1% is for Dino's and other cars of that ilk.

    If I were younger, I'd make a mad dash down to the Honda dealership and grab onto the new Accord Hybrid. It's hard to argue with torque when you want it and 37 MPG when you want that, too.
     
  20. dave_fonz_164

    dave_fonz_164 Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2004
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    having owned italian, french, american, japanese and german in the family.

    nothing comes close to a japanese car in terms of engineering durability and smart design, they are simply the lowest maintenanc vehicles you can buy.

    german cars were great once upon a time, they seem to be plagued with problems.

    italians are better than what people think, not japanese like but close to the germans and sometimes better. reputation is what haunts most italian brands.after owning several fiats, they were unbreakable machines!

    the french, they old pugs and renaults were good but the new ones seem horrible.

    americans, ive given up.
     
  21. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
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    for God's sake, get a Lexus. The best.
     
  22. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    From my experience with 3 different BMWs I'd say yes they are reliable and durable where it counts. At the same time minor things screw up.

    Note: Experience in BMWs ranging from 150k to 250k miles and were thus; a 94 540i, a 89 535i and a 86 325es. So my experience may not be true for the latest crop.
     
  23. Dale

    Dale F1 Veteran

    Oct 7, 2003
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    The early german stuff be it audi,merc,bmw were screwd together very well now they seem to be chucked together with 450bhp twin turbo whatever engines that leak oil electrical faults all over the shop,so yes to the early german cars and no thanks keep them to the new stuff.
     
  24. zebra308

    zebra308 Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2004
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    Just posted 197,000 miles on my old '91 525i. It's my driver and I've owned it since new. It's been pretty bullet proof. No major drivetrain problems. It does have it's share of electrical gremlins though. The handeling is it strong point.
    I liked it enough to buy another 2002 525 (it's the garage queen). JMHO
     

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