Getting Licensed

Is the best way to take the 3-day Skippy school and start climbing the SCCA ladder?

that's what i did, it's been fine. is there something way better out there? maybe.

 

Yep Skippy and then go.

Don't limit your self to the SCCA though, there are some great organizations out there that can also help you hone your skills.

 

Yep, Scott has a point. With the proliferation of marque club racing programs (BMWCCA, PCA, Viper Club), alternative racing venues (NASA, PBOC) as well as the whole polyglot of vintage and historic racing organizations and special events, there is no shortage of places to race.

I still think the best route is the traditional one of doing Skippy, then renting a car (Spec Miata comes to mind) and run a couple SCCA Regional races, then try your hand at National racing (a whole different ball of wax...) and see what's what from there. You can examine which classes and cars interest you without the "ball and chain" of car ownership. Skippy's Regional Series are a good testing ground, too. For advanced racecraft, Dennis Macchio at Bertil Roos is excellent after getting your license and some seat time...

If your bias is towards more "friendly" racing, with emphasis on the collegial camaraderie of "taking part" over the "win at all costs" mentality, the marque-specific stuff and in particular, some vintage organizations, are hard to beat.

As always, YMMV.

-Peter

 

Dale:

1) What do you need the national licence for?

2) Are you looking to develop your racecraft further?

 

Ah ha!

Anybody with a pulse and a credit card can get a Grand Am licence these days. Shouldn't be a problem for you, unless they change their licencing criteria.

I would recommend further investigation into racing schools. Without getting into a lot of detail, Skippy has traditionally set up their school cars with lots of understeer. Makes for safe cars, but obviously takes away from students' learnings.

 

While I think Skippy is great for noobs (I mean that in a good way, everyone is a noob starting out), I really like Bertil Roos and Panoz. I know most of the guys at Panoz and it's a very good crew. Roos seems to allow more accelerated learning more quickly. It's also very good at focusing on the mind, the approach and developing vision. Dennis Macchio is an exceptional presenter, on par with the master, Bruce McInnis.

I suppose if you're a muscle car guy, Bondurant is quite good. Don't really know anything about Jim Russell.

-Peter (spending a lot more time doing personal coaching than teaching for schools these days...)

 

I went to Derek Daly's school in Vegas. It's a great program that utilizes telemetry analysis and skid pad training along with the classroom and ample seat time. I did Skippy about a year or so after that and did not like it nearly as much. I have heard that the Panoz school is really good, and I imagine Road Atlanta would be a terrific track for learning. If you look into that, check out their Chateau/spa packages.

 

I've done the Skip school as well as Panoz. To me, Skip seemed MUCH more like a "see what its like being a racer for a few days" whereas the Panoz was much more a "learn to be a racecar driver" school. The Panoz advanced 3-day (or 4 day, whatever it was) IMO is awesome. My only criticism of both schools is I felt the quality of some/many instructors was lacking, with Panoz being a LOT better than Skip Barber. There were a couple of gems at Panoz, a few "pretty good" instructors and only a couple of chumps. Most of the guys at Skip IMO seemed like chumps with only one truly good instructor in the two times I've done it. I've also heard good things about the Corvette school in Pahrump, but I've never done it - maybe will next year. I'd do Panoz again in a heartbeat. I've done the motorcycle one at LVMS - if you want a thrill, thats your ticket

 

That's why I like the Panoz instructor corps so much. It's a smaller, more stable group just based on the the fact that Panoz is not near as far flung as Skippy is. Also, Skippy does a lot of corporate ride and drive, which means they have to hire more amateurs (marque club folks) to fill the right seat, so it's normal to see a wider variation in instructor experience and competence.

I've heard good things about Daly's school, particularly about the use of DA even in the introductory three-day schools. It's a great tool.

It does boil down to who you get at some of these schools. Lee Ezzell, Joe Foster, Brian Cunningham and others are top-flight guys at Panoz.

Of course, there are the same level guys at Skippy, just less to go around...

-Peter

 

Dale,
Interesting timing as I just posed this question to a friend of mine who is a former IRL season champion.

You'd figure that he would have a real preference, right? Nope. He said that, generally speaking, they're all pretty much the same format nowadays. He said that I should use the track as the deciding the factor. He highly recommended doing a school at Laguna Seca or Sears Point (Skippy or Russell) as they would have the most. Now, I am sure that if I peppered him with some very specific questions, he would have some specific answers but as he knows that I am a former teenage karter and have had plenty of open wheel time in lower level formula cars before, some of the details may be less important.

 

Panoz offers one-on-one schools in production based cars. More relavant to what you want to drive. I did Skippy yrs ago and learned lots but in a Formula Ford. Data collection is the way of the future; you can analyze each and ever corner, compare it to the "right" way, and hopefully improve from there. The old days seat of the pants are over.
I would seriously consider a school with data.
If you want to be FAST it will be essential now or later. Best to learn it now.

 

I have a good idea who you were working with.

Either 1) back to Tremblant for Jim Russell or 2) Bridgestone Racing School at Mosport. I have a slight bias (but no personal connection), but I think you'll get the most for your hard earned dollars at either of these schools.

Following that, you'll just need lots and lots of seat time.

 

I've been thinking of signing up for Skip's racing school, but I'm glad I read throught this thread. Regarding the Panoz and Ferrari Racing experiences classes, are there age limits or minimum experience needed to sign up? I'd ask more questions, but if there is a website for both, could somebody please post them?
Also, if I want to join one of those classes next summer (2007), does anybody suggest a timeframe when I should sign up? e.g. I know many summer motorcycle classes are filled by february.
Thanks for the help.

 

IMO the answer to your question depends on what you want to do.

I've found an SCCA national license useful as a credential - with it, all the sanctioning bodies and track day groups let me in without any questions. I earned the national license by running in a couple of the Skippy races.

The SCCA license has to be maintained, of course - if you don't meet the minimum annual racing requirements, you can petition for a waiver. I've gone the waiver route several times, and always received the waiver, but then I'm on track fairly often.

If you're not going to race in SCCA, then ... why? It's my clear impression and personal experience that many, if not most "pro" series, will give you a license on someone's say so - they want the bodies and the money.

I've raced in the Panoz series. Lisa Kay Golde, the administrator, is a gem. I agree with those who say the instructors are excellent. Downsides, if any: Panoz only visits Road Atlanta and Sebring, so it may be geographically inconvenient, and, it's not a development series. If racing with the young karters is your cup of tea, Panoz isn't the right place. Panoz seems to me to be much more customer service oriented than Skippy.

I did the Daly advanced course several years ago and was impressed by the use of data; I agree with those who say data is essential to understanding your strengths and weaknesses. Are you braking early or late? Carrying too much or too little entry speed? How quick are your shifts? Etc etc, all answered easily with data. Panoz also uses data in its very useful advanced course.

You already know this, but to really improve: IMO, drive a low horsepower, relatively low grip, "momentum" car. Skippy's formula fords are dated but, on street tires, hard to beat as a learning tool. Spec Racer Fords are pretty good, probably spec miatas, and others. The worst thing you can do, IMO, is get into a high horsepower car loaded with driver's aids; in such cars, you can go terribly fast without knowing anything about driving.

Cheers, Will

 

Another thought about Skippy: if you've been driving for a while, you may find the three day racing course too elementary.

IMO, Mosport is one of the best tracks in North America, very fast, scary at times - perfect.

 

"the 430 felt like a powerful go kart in which you could do no wrong."

Great description, must have been a blast.


"The pedal on the right is mashed to the floor or the pedal in middle is mashed to the floor."

I know that feeling. Though I've only driven them a few times, my impression of the spec racer fords is that, unless you're downshifting, the only typoe of braking you can do is with your left foot - take that right foot off the gas and you'll never get your momentum back.


Listen, notwithstanding the sober, well-intentioned advice about driving momentum cars, I'll take the "dark side," too, without hesitation. Let's see, spec miata or F430 Challenge ... hmmm.