Getting the 355 ready for track day use | FerrariChat

Getting the 355 ready for track day use

Discussion in '348/355' started by adhesivo, Feb 19, 2015.

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  1. adhesivo

    adhesivo Karting

    Jan 30, 2012
    94
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Miguel
    I've been searching on this forum a bit and I couldn't find much information on best improvements for stock cars (challenges are another story) when taking the F355 to the track.
    I've found the following two problems so far:

    - exhaust (capristo 3) not making any noise when downshifting or no throttle pedal press even at high rpms (therefore it's hard to get a feeling of engine rpms), it could be a malfunction on the bypass valve (just got it replaced btw)? Is anyone experiencing this weird behavior? It's fine on the street but a real issue on the track. I've never experience this in any other car.
    - stock suspension (too soft on acceleration and under heavy breaking, not too bad on corners). Easy to feel inside the car and quite noticeable when reviewing videos.

    So I want to take my car to an experienced shop where they've played with these before (a shop where they used to race 355 challenges would be ideal) but having a hard time finding one in the LA area. Sure I could take it to a more generic place but not a good idea to use my car as a test mule.
    Any suggestions?
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,184
    socal
    I bet I can help you. What tracks have you been running? What laptimes? What is your track experience?
     
  3. adhesivo

    adhesivo Karting

    Jan 30, 2012
    94
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Miguel
    I mostly drive around LA. Willow springs, streets of willow and sometimes Fontana.
    I have however quite some miles at Sonoma, since it's where I trained a bit on the 458challenge and where I got my Formula 3 license. Best time? I think it was 1.39 but not sure that´s super useful given that there are a few track configurations there, right?
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,184
    socal
    Sounds like you have good experience. Do you feel comfortable developing a car and providing feedback to speed development?
     
  5. adhesivo

    adhesivo Karting

    Jan 30, 2012
    94
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Miguel
    What do you have in mind? Feel free to email me at deltona at gmail dot com
     
  6. adhesivo

    adhesivo Karting

    Jan 30, 2012
    94
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Miguel
    Anyone knows of an aftermarket suspension? Stiffer/lower springs?
     
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,739
    Unless you are going to run slicks, the factory suspension is perfectly set up for street tires, and only a tad soft for r-compounds, and complete mush with slicks.

    With r-compounds and slicks you need to upgrade the airflow to the brake rotors (especially in the rear) and use significantly higher temperature pads with fresh fluid.

    Slicks may also end up needing one step heavier weight oil in the tranny and xxW-50 oil in the motor. r-compounds would be right at the borderline, streets need nothing, here.

    No particular reason to lower the car (it is ridiculously low for a street car anyway.) And if you did, you would want it corner weighted with the roll axis inclination set where the factory ride height would set it.
     
  8. adhesivo

    adhesivo Karting

    Jan 30, 2012
    94
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Miguel
    If you can, have a look at this moment in the video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdw5Vu9RlK8#t=136

    The front and rear of the car flex too much under heavy braking and hard acceleration. Too much for my taste. The car is running in Sport mode.

    Would stiffer springs fix this?
     
  9. cuneo

    cuneo Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2006
    2,479
    I personally think it would help a lot, but I'm no expert. Flex doesn't seem to be the problem, but squat and dive do.
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,184
    socal
    Driver development is the best investment.
     
  11. adhesivo

    adhesivo Karting

    Jan 30, 2012
    94
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Miguel
    Here we go again... I've heard this a lot of times. It's not a bad comment, it's just sometimes not what's needed.
     
  12. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,739
    Q) What is the easiest way to slow a semi-novice driver down?
    A) give him a car with 100 more HP!

    Realistically, taking a pure novice driver who might be able to get around a track in 2:30, a driver on the verge of "getting it" is able to drive 2:15 while a driver who actually has gotten it can drive 2:06. All in the same car with the same tires and brakes.

    Whereas the difference between a car set up for the street and a car with the suspension all tricked out for race track use might go 2:04 compared to the completely stock car at 2:06.

    Thus, there is as much as 24 seconds to be gained by modifying the driver, and 2 seconds to be gained modifying the car. Which one should be modified first?
     
  13. 601

    601 Karting

    Dec 19, 2010
    223
    California
    Adam Cox has lots of 355 Challenge experience. His shop Ace Motorsports is in Vista or find him at the track. He's at Willow Springs this weekend.
     
  14. adhesivo

    adhesivo Karting

    Jan 30, 2012
    94
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Miguel
    Super useful! THanks so much!!!!
     
  15. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,905
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    What tires do you plan to run? That really dictates a lot of the rest of the car.

    For springs, you can go Fiorano springs from Ferrari or H&R springs. I think these would be the most agressive you'd want unless you're running full on slicks. I have the H&R on my car and it is well controlled. I would not go stiffer, it is nowhere near hitting the bump stops and sometimes is actually faster with the suspension in 'comfort' instead of sport (if it's a bumpy or wet surface). Stiffer might provide better feel but the car would slide around more and be slower.

    You will need upgraded brake pads and good fluid. If you go slicks, you'll probably need bigger brakes. I'm running VIR Monday in my car and have Hawk HP Plus pads, will report back on how they hold up. Last time I ran stock pads and they faded badly after around 4 hard laps and I went straight off track (see video). The video also shows the body control on good street tires (Continental extreme DW's). I'm bringing Hoosier R6's with me and if the brakes hold up and it stays dry, will try them in the afternoon.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtfL9hLayIo[/ame]
     
  16. adhesivo

    adhesivo Karting

    Jan 30, 2012
    94
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Miguel
    #16 adhesivo, Feb 27, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
    I think I'll go with the DeltaVee sport suspension option. Seems like a nice balance between some usability on the street and better balance in the track. Way more than I'd like to spend though.
    Re Brakes: I'll try DS2500 first and I'm checking prices on those AP racing 6 caliper brake kits to see if they're worth it.

    I want to avoid slicks in this car, I think I'd be pushing it too hard if I was to go that route. I think I'll stay with Michelin Super sport.

    Bobzdar, what App are you using for timing? That voice reading the laptime is pretty useful!
     
  17. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,905
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Trackmaster, I really like it. It gives you gps based lap time and traces of your line. You really need an external BT module for it as phone GPS only update once a second and you need 5-10x per second updates for decent accuracy. I bought a Garmin external BT module that has 10hz recording that I'll be running monday and will post more video after that with more cameras and hopefullly some data overlay. I just need to figure out a way to record my engine rpms so I can mix that with the GPS and video data. I have an old GTECH I might try to get working if I have time that can record G forces, rpms etc. and then mash it all together.

    I still have to put the Hawk pads on, bleed the brake fluid and change my gearbox oil, so who knows if I'll get to all that fun stuff.
     

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