Giles Villeneuve Question

Zolder Track in Belgium
1982
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/heirloom_series/volume4/38-41.htm

 

Thank you for the link.

Now for the Un-PC question. JV has been associated with the likes of Senna yet his career was pitted with DNF and crashes and few victories. I have seen some of the old racing footage and while I appreciate certain "couragous" moves (crazy also comes to mind) a high number resulted in crashes (hence is record). I understand that his career was tragically cut short but F1 has lost many promising drivers, yet he is refered to by many as a legend and some would put him in the top five driver list.

Why is that? National pride?

 

Going for a hot iron, aren't you?

He had a few things going for him: Raw speed, tons of car control, gobs of talent, loyalty to his team and an ungiving will to win. Enzo loved him like/as his son.

Gilles could have won the title that Jody got, but was loyal to the team and stood by his word and held back. So technically he could have had one title already.

The Zolder accident was very tragic. Partly caused by the non loyal behavior of Pironi, partly because of Gilles unrelenting nature and partly because of a bone headed move (oops, I mean misunderstanding) on Mass' part. Had this freak accident not occured, chances were Gilles would have run away with the 82 title.

He did some pointless and crazy stuff (like driving back to the pits on three wheels tearing the drivetrain apart), but the fans loved him even more for that. I adored him for his chicken games with Pironi in the helicopter: Hovering over the roofs of Monaco who ever would chicken out with low fuel and land would loose. I also loved him for his sideways parking the company 308.

They just don't make F1 drivers anymore like he was. Somebody lost the recipe.

 

JV or GV. JV couldn't carry Senna or Schumacher's Jock strap, lol. GV on the other hand is remembered for his bravery ,car control and outright speed he was widely regarded as the fastest of his era. I guess bringing the car home with no damage was not one of his strong points. I suppose driving for Ferrari didn't hurt either....

 

There are a few good books that explain this. In practice for his first GP in Britain with McLaren, observers were aghast when he went off at every corner. When questioned why, he asked "How can I know the limit if I never exceed it?"

The man was totally fearless. The first time he drove a street car he stole his father's Pontiac and tried to take a corner at 100 mph in the rain.

Whenever he spun on the track he had the uncanny ability to know where he was on the road and react accordingly.

I was lucky enough to see Gilles race in person, as well as other greats like Gurney, Brabham, Stewart, Scheckter, Andretti, Prost, Senna, etc. None had Gilles magic. Even when I first saw him drive a Formula Atlantic at Mosport I knew he was special.

 

The old man loved him

 

Sorry I meant GV (Gilles) not JV. The latter should have retired a long time ago. I can't believe that he is so assertive about his driving seat for next year... It's the reverse of Button - he is trying to force BWM to keep him because of his "experience" (Yeah right! performance at BAR, Renault, Sauber have hardly been noteworthy) BMW guys are probably laughing as is most of the pitlane. A defining element of greatest in knowing when to call it quits...JV obviously doesn't have that gene...

 

Although it was clear to me that you were obviously talking about Gilles, I wouldn't simply discount his son. He has definitely inherited more than just the name. He was great on snow mobiles (like his father), great in Indycar (I was blessed to watch him race in the US) and he showed Damon Hill his rightful place (in the kitchen). He was stunning as a rookie in F1 and the year thereafter rightfully clinched the titled. None of that was coincidence.

However what happened thereafter is a bit of a mistery to me. He lost his motivation and to some degree his talent (not sure how that happens) in the years thereafter. IMHO another one of those drivers that have it all together in one short moment of time and then collapse into nothingness (Hakkinen, DC, Scheckter come to mind).

 

and BAR didnt help him much either

 

Another aspect about Gilles was that his Ferrari wasn't always the sharpest car on the grid, yet he never failed to drive the ears off of it. He embodied the passion of racing.

 

+ Renault offered him a contract to drive for them in 2002. He refused and re-signed with BAR. Bad move. Easy to say this now, back then it could have been good.
Schumacher didn't want JV at Ferrari so they went to get Rubens. McLaren had MH and DC. Best options were to stay with Williams or go to Jordan. He went into unknow territory. JV had some great runs with BAR up to 2002 with a crappy car. After 2003 ..things have changed a lot. He lost his motivation like tifosi12 said. He isn't the same driver as before (1996-2002). But I still beleive he has his place in F1. It would be great to see BMW emerge as a top team the 1st year. I still think he can win races. He has done it before, him to decide if he still wants it.

If JV was still driving like at the beginning of the season, I would say to call it the quits. Since Imola he is getting up to speed and has shown us some good stuff. (Imola GP, French GP, Monaco qualy, Montreal qualy,)

 

im keeping my finger crossed, hopefully bmw can put a front running car and JV can get motivated again.

but yeah he does deserve his place, because he did win the WC.

 

It wasnt Gilles accomplishments that I admire, It was his burning desire to accomplish.

 

Bill
Likewise - maybe Ronnie Peterson. I remember sitting in the stands at Woodcote watching Ronnie hurtling through in the Lotus 72 - even now, more than 30 yrs later, the memory still makes the hairs stand up.
Nathan

 

Didn’t Gilles kill someone during his first F1 race? Wild is O.K. until someone gets killed, then it isn’t a party anymore.

 

Excellent point.

 

This post started my re-reading of the de la Plante book on him. What a joy. I just loved that era of F1.
Also ,these days, we see Jackie Stewart walking the grid at the races looking somewhat out of place, but what a Giant he was in his prime.

 

Spot on. I was watching seventies Nuerburgring footage the other day and was so impressed by Jackie. Whereas nowadays his stubborn attitude as BRDC boss completely turns me off.

 

I think people also connected with Gilles because he was a throwback to the fearless drivers like Tazo Nuvolari. His fearless (wreckless?) behavior was a reminder of what it was like in the pioneering days of racing, throwing fear and caution to the wind while doing whatever possible to comandeer a machine to finish first. Difference is the early machines were raw and unsophisticated. Driving the wheels off was definitely in play. The modern machines were the result of improved engineering and didn't require the same 11/10ths prodding. Safety definitely moved to the forefront, but GV didn't seem to acknowledge that.

No doubt, though, Enzo was peeking into the past whenever he saw GV behind the wheel. The guy drove like there was nobody on the track but him.

 

What he said!!!!

 

Gilles collided with Ronnie Peterson in the early laps of the 1977 Japanese GP (not his first GP, but nearly). Some spectators standing in a prohibited area were killed. Now in no way can you blame a driver for a normal racing accident which results in death or injury to spectators when those spectators are not playing the rules of th game. On every motor racing event I'ved ever been to it says on the ticket words to the effect of 'motor racing is dangerous'.

Gilles Villeneuve was one of the most talented people ever to sit in a racing car but more than that he was one of the most exciting to watch. One of those who, whatever position he was in, regardless of the heap he may have ben driving, was always giving absolutely everything and always worth watching. He probably had the best car in only two of the Grand Prix he drove (Kyalami and Long Beach 1979) and he won them both. If you don't know what I'm talking about you'r etoo young! Watch the videos, read the books (especially Gerald Donaldson's wonderful biography and anything by Nigel Roebuck).

Jonathan

 

Gilles Villeneuve was one of the most talented people ever to sit in a racing car but more than that he was one of the most exciting to watch. One of those who, whatever position he was in, regardless of the heap he may have ben driving, was always giving absolutely everything and always worth watching. He probably had the best car in only two of the Grand Prix he drove (Kyalami and Long Beach 1979) and he won them both. If you don't know what I'm talking about you'r etoo young! Watch the videos, read the books (especially Gerald Donaldson's wonderful biography and anything by Nigel Roebuck).

Jonathan[/QUOTE]

Watch the closing laps of the 1979 French GP. Giles & Rene Arnoux put on the most exciting battle for 2nd place in GP history.

 

Get your facts straight, Button is under contract to Williams, not BMW. Which makes your entire point worthless.

 

I see it that when people are talking about drivers like Gilles the copious natural talent and no fear dedication is part of the attraction. Statistics rightly mean little to fans of such enigmatic characters.

As for JV he was in the same mould, albeit not quite a GV type personality, until the money at BAR took over his ambition. Well that's how I see it as an outsider anwyay. For an example of JV take a look at the 1996 Portuguese GP where he overtakes MS around the outside at the daunting parabolica. Without doubt one of the great overtaking manoeuvres. Balls of steel!