Give me some advice on this 85 garage queen

I've seen this car in person and the cosmetic condition is wonderful. It needs everything in terms of major service - maybe even more than a typical major from the standpoint of rubber components like fuel lines, etc.

At what price point do you think this car makes sense? Should I stay away from the garage queens regardless of the price? The queens are sure pretty though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6212&sspagename=rvi%3A1%3A1v_&viewitem=&item=110140844031

another link..

http://www.motorcars-intl.com/vehicle_details.aspx?ID=441

 

i would say budget 20KCDN which is 18K US to do everything...with the engine out, and im including thermo stats, fuel lines, all new hoses, maybe ball joints and or control arms in case, new rubbers.

 

I know it will go above $35k. What should I offer? In other words what is a totally sorted and serviced 85 worth and how much work does this one need? My offer needs to be in line with...

Sales price=Final value after service less the cost of the service.

I didn't realize ball joints go bad just sitting. $18k would be a lot of money to put into the car.

 

I would buy a queen and ball joints only wear out from use not time (unless they sieze which is unlikely on a garage queen) I also think $20 K is high, would cost me about $1000 to get this baby on the road doing the work myself provided the tires were good.

 

Are you sure you meant $1000?? It would seem to need a major and that would probably be $10,000 for parts and labor. I know you would do the work yourself, but you are experienced. Additional rubber hoses etc..would be extra.

 

belts are cheap so are seals and cam cover gaskets, you get hosed when you buy more than you need out of fear and when you pay someone to do it. I could do the service on that car for $1000 (for myself) if it didnt need tires. I wouldnt change the t-stats unless it needed them which is unlikely. If the fuel lines are nice then pass on that too. Other hard to reach items would be smart to change but I think a lot of people get sucked into over-repairing out of fear.

 

Good lord, that second link says they want 69,900 for it as is (the dealer itself, not the Ebay)...wonder what they have the bid reserve at?

I say it MIGHT be a 60,000 to 65,000 car with all the aforementioned service was all done, books, papers, etc. all up, etc.

 

So if it's worth $65 fully serviced and it takes $10k to do the service, don't pay more than $55k? I don't have the equipment or frankly the skills to do the work myself. They might do the service in-house at a cost somewhat less than a dealer would charge.

 

I would say with a major it would be easily worth $65K USD. If one or two owner car and it all checks out. I agree with the 'do everything' approach to majors, so I would plan to spend at least $7,5k on that. Bid accordingly.

 

I like this approach, but more information needed -- if it has 415mm wheels (not 16") and hasn't had the updates described here:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136448069&postcount=4

use a ~$15K discount IMO (and if no cats discount more).

 

It has the metric wheels and absolutely zero service records. Don't know about the cats but there are no emissions tests in my area.

The VIN is ZFFSA17A7F0058269. Is there any way to find the service history through the FNA computer system?

 

The cats still matter if you should ever want to sell it. I seriously doubt that you are ever going to find much service history on this one (if my experience in the market last year is any guide). But, maybe you could track down a former owner - surely it has not gone 22 years without ANY maintenance!

Let me just also go on the record to say that the figure $10,000 to bring this car up to presentable and driveable is IMHO wishful thinking. I would budget about $20,000 just to be safe - thus, not offering any more than $42,000 to $45,000. You would also have to be as absolutely sure as you possibly can that the mileage is real.

I guess this thread gives us a dose of the real world on "is the Testarossa market tanking" and "there are lots of decent drivers out there for $39,000".

 

I agree 100%.

Everyone seems to assume that only mechanics buy these cars and fix them for cheap (re: labour costs)...not eveeyone that looks to own a ferrari has a lift in there garage and can rip apart these things, so 18K is to be safe in case you need everything(For the average buyer).
BTW : a 22 yr old car, with low mileage will just about need everything looked at to make sure, nobody even knows if the clutch is pooched, or the board is fried.....paint and chairs dont sell these cars, bills on work performed do....at least they should

 

Did anyone drive this car yet?

Maybe it runs fine, bar a few minor repairs. Why is it that it MUST have a major?

I got my 87 TR for cheap............man, I am having the most fun out of any car I ever owned.......................while some other saps are still worried about there majors!..............Fine don't buy it, and then............you might be missing a terrific experience.

If you want a perfect TR be prepared to spend big bucks........but for 50k and some minor tlc, you could get this or another TR and have the time of your life................drive it untill your sick of it, sell it , and at least then you can say I DID IT!!!!! ................my 3 cents!

 

anyone that pays $15K - $20K for a service on a great car is a sucker. This TR looks very nice and if the buyer is smart they'll have a chunk of change left over if they budget $20K (a rediculous amount). A PPI will tell the story.

 

20K would not even come close if that timing belt lets go...and you will never know for sure until you take it down and put a new one in. A car driven as little as this one claims to be could also have issues with the rings or valves just from sitting, and as stated above, the clutch, water pump, electricals, are over and above the belt service. Not to mention tires, which might actually be the 22 year old originals. Betcha the A/C is down a little, too.

Thus I gave the ridiculously conservative 20K reserve for surprises. But, I guess you have to ask yourself - do I feel LUCKY?

 

Why must you ever change the oil/filter in any car? The answer is you don't have to. Just sell it before the accumulated crud destroys the engine and let the next guy deal with it.

There's no law. But Ferrari, who manufactured the car, specify a major service be done every X years or N miles. According to Dale, this car is due. If you don't want an engine bay fire, brake failure, or a timing belt failure leading to a stiff five-figure engine repair bill, then you maintain the car.

You should come down to San Diego and have a look at a 355 Spider (12 years newer than this TR) that caught fire and burned the driver enough that he needed skin grafts. There was no law that he had to have his fuel lines inspected. He was some reasonably well-off guy who wanted a Ferrari, and this was his first one.

Who knows exactly with this '85 TR needs, but the right answer is that if you have no service recs, no receipts, no firsthand trustworthy information, that engine likely needs to come out, and while it's out you're going to want to check everything and allow for what needs to be done.

Point is this is a 22 year old used car, and if it's new to you -- and you're not a talented mechanic like Paul -- you've got to budget for this stuff. If it really has no records, I wouldn't go much over $50K.

 

I've thought about this, and I think you end up paying to restore the paint and interior based on use, or you pay to restore a lot of mechanical bits from sitting around.

That said, it feels better to me to spend the money on a queen because when you're done you have a near-perfect car (none of them are perfect) in great driving condition. Just be prepared to lose a lot of money on this one, as you probably know. The miles will hurt resale, values aren't really going up on these, and the service costs are steep.

But if it's pride of ownership, God save the queens!

 

I never said dont service it just that the suggested cost was out of line and without even looking at the car in person its silly to assume its a complete pail in need of a restoration which seems to be the general consensus. Also the owner isnt going to say "ok guys you're right lets assume its the worst case and Ill give it away just to be safe" so keep dreaming at the low ball prices you guys are throwing out there.

 

Well even with a major, a problem could arise, you feel all comfy cozy because you think you have the warrenty fairy on your side, and then WHAM, the damn thing blows up anyway..............and there is a difference between doing a magor and changing oil and simple upkeep.

 

I just saw a ford on fire the other day.....................hmmm ..........must of not done his major service!

 

Oh, and I also agree, a garage queen is not the car to buy, rubber, hoses deteriorate and dry out, if anything all that would need to be replaced.

 

OK - let me try this again. I did not mean to say that it was GOING to cost 20K to get this safely driveable. I DID SAY that to be very conservative about your finances, you really should be PREPARED to have that kind of cost covered. Hence, the need to negotiate the purchase accordingly.

Also, because Dale K was the one to bring this up, I took his interest at heart rather than the seller (although I have nothing against them either; they are at least being honest, it seems).

And, the point is well taken that the cosmetics of a car like this one just cannot be beat.

Now, having said that, most of you may know that I bought kind of a "Garage Queen 2nd class" myself about 2 months back. 1986 with 21K miles, also very very clean cosmetically. It did come with records, last belt service at 15K miles in year 2000 - so I know I will be doing this for myself as well. I priced it accordingly. And I am kind of happy to be in full control of the scheduled maintenance, rather than looking at somebody else's receipt.

Most of you also know that I was very close to writing the check on another car, a 1987 with 51K miles, but it had some PPI issues I was not comfortable with. I delayed doing anything on it, and sure enough the owner broke first gear the very next week. I stayed in touch, and his bill is now about 25K and rising, (it needed some valves), and it is still not back together since last August.

BTW, I refused a third car, a 1987 Red/Black with only 12.5K miles as it had absolutely no books, records, or history and they were not negotiating the price under 64,500.

So, thats my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Best of luck on this car, it may well be worth the effort -

James

 

I'm going up to Springfield on Thursday to look at the car again. I want to hear it running and maybe drive it around the parking lot. If it runs smooth and the clutch works smooth I'll continue to follow up on the car. Their auction expires soon and I plan on letting that process go ahead without me. I don't expect serious bids and maybe the firm will realize they have a car that's hard to sell so they'll be more receptive to my offer.

Does anybody have an answer to one of my earlier question - namely is there a way to verify through Ferrari North America what services/updates were performed early in the car's life (since there are no records with the car).

 

As a long time ferrari owner, and looking at these cars for the last 15 yrs plus, i dont care what anyone says...if the car comes with no bills or recipets these cars are ticking time bombs.

A garage queen will need a full out service, i dont care how much you think it doesnt need it, the minute you honk on it, it will crap....I have seen so many of these cars where the add says mint......then there are no records, at least no records from this milenuim.

If this car being 22 yrs old has little to know service history assume the worst to be safe...20K and maybe you are still not safe. If you are a mechanic by trade this 20K will not apply to you...if you are like me and need to send the car out, do some homework....just because you drive it around the block doesnt mean that single bolt nut holding that tire is in correctly, it may be stripped and you have no idea.

Drive a few of them and then make your deicsion carefully, FNA will give you nothing, yo ucan try and see if some dealers may have seen the car with the VIN, odds are you will not.

Assume the worst and pray for the best.....have a leak down test done, plus PPI and bring soemoen with you that knows these cars and what to look for, look for rust under the front hood where the horn and washer fulid is....make sure those latches that open the truck, and decklid work.....make sure those power windows work and close well.....this crap goes work on a tr, it will be a bad experience. If you a mechanic, im telling you stuff you didnt need me to tell, but as a 8 yr tr owner.....they aint cheap if you want it done right and want to keep the car.
Good luck !