Glickenhaus' SCGs

did he say: the glickman?

 

He did get to race Ferrari in LM 2023, and watching the 499P lap the 007 several times was sort of a "welcome to the big leagues, we did it on our first try after coming back, now shut your mouth" moment. I admire what JG did, but his attitude, big mouth, and lack of accountability ruined everything.

His first (and only IIRC) N24 win was against no competition, he was so full of it. Sore loser, obnoxious winner.

 

It was a win in XPS class
And yes no competition
And once he had maybe one other car in that XPS class

never understood why Glickenhaus wanted to race with the big boys Mercedes Audi and BMW and not be in their GT3 class……..ooooo wait he never built the numbers that was needed lol

 

Mistake was going racing. Period. Should have stuck w rebodied coach built Ferraris for street

 

I think his mistake was having a personal "vendetta" with Ferrari and getting on a high-horse with the P4/5. You could say he brought back coachbuilding, which before P4/5 had been gone for decades, and he did it with an amazing execution.

Sadly, something happened among him, Pininfarina, and Ferrari which derailed his whole goal into proving that he was better than Ferrari. That he, unlike Ferrari, could make a car you could drive to La Sarthe, win Le Mans, and drive it back home like a 100 years ago. He never did. His ego and pride cost him big.

He was constantly taunting Ferrari, "I have the fastest Ferrari powered car around the NR" (which was a carefully phrased lie), "I have won a race no other Ferrari powered car has won", "Ferrari are afraid of going back to LM", "I will win LM before Ferrari does again" etc, etc.

Additionally, his feud with Ferrari had more fire in the pit with the whole 0846 drama.

The biggest current issue that I see is that his cars are now old, and what may have been seen as interesting and new when he announced them, now it has lost all momentum. He was beaten by Gordon Murray to create a 3 seater driver's car; name-wise and tech-wise he will never be able to compete with GM and with an NA V12 from Cosworth.

There are plenty of $2.5 million cars that are more desirable than his offerings.

To top it off, the DeTomaso P72 and Ferrari SP3 have done an amazing job in bringing back the 60's P cars to modern times.

 

Is the Duesenberg still with him?

 

It was going to be sold at auction, I think at Pebble.

 

Do you have an axe to grind with Jim? For YEARS now you have been ragging on SCG.

Curious what your deal is.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/detomaso-p72.603088/#post-146701229

 

Do I owe you mr No Name an explanation?
The answer is: NO
No need to reply: you are blocked.

 

Did they post anything that isn’t factual? The only race accolades are ones where they were the only competitor. They’ve never raced a full season in any race series.

None of the “many” 003 orders claimed were real, and in the time they’ve been working on 004 and the Boot, GMA was founded, a car was announced, and deliveries have started.

I wish them success, and they have done some cool things especially with the Hypercar, but as a company it’s smoke and mirrors until real deliveries occur.



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Well- just got a confirmation on how Glickenhaus math is different than everyone else’s math. Based on extrapolation using Jim’s unique math here, maybe their claims in the orders they’ve received are somewhat accurate (although it still doesn’t track with his 003 order claims)

If I was an investor in them, I’d be terrified at this stage.


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The Enzo was introduced in September 2002. His math is indeed unique, very unique. Maybe he has a September 2000 pre-production prototype?

 

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Posting has been corrected. Likely just an oversight since there isn't much significance to how long it has been in existence.

I hope Jim registers for "Antique" license plates when it hits 25. Would look pretty funny on that car. I think the P4/5 concept and execution was genius -- a "one of one" car that (I suspect most would agree) was better than the Enzo.

 

Totally different design brief. nor were Ferrari taking past models and their design language and trying to create a modern version.
Many of Jim projects takes other marks designs and DL and then try to create a modern version.
To me the lack of being original and not starting from a blank sheet was his down fall on many levels. He should have left the P4/5 as a tribute which got him the attention he wanted then created his own thing. The P4/5 was a nice tribute car.

 

I seriously have no idea what you are talking about. The P4/5 was built almost in tandem with the Enzo (as soon as it could be after the Enzo came out). The Enzo was as modern as it could be, he wasn't creating a "modern version", nor what he trying to create his own car with P4/5. His goal was to revive the "coachbuilding" era where custom bodies were built on a new factory chassis, and they were recognized as Ferrari's. Many people thought the Enzo was hideous looking when it came out because the angled looks at that time were shocking. Some loved it, and more have grown to like or love it as time has gone on, but it was definitely love/hate looks-wise when it came out. Jim made car that performed better and was much better looking probably to many, if not most. Ferrari was against the project, but later endorsed it as a Ferrari when they saw the end result. The car is one of one, and it's probably worth multiples of what he paid to create it, and it's a better Enzo from almost all perspectives. Jim may not be perfect, but it's hard to be (legitimately) critical of what he did with P4/5.

 

1st) The P4/5 was basically a Enzo re bodied. Ferrari were not really told or shown anything. LDM was basically called to Pininfarina and shown the finish car. I think he only accepted the car as it was already in the public eye and he did not want the drama (the issues being the way Jim conducted him self). I also believe this in part is why Ferrari relationship with Pininfarina was basically ended later.

So tandem no, Jim may have had a basic idea but he had no access approved by Ferrari for the Enzo before it went to market. so he did not have classes details or any info like that to take the P4/5 design very far at all.

2nd) He purchased a donor car aka an Enzo which he removed the body and interior etc and sold them as parts to owners.

3rd) I am talking about the body design I WAS VERY CLEAR ON THAT. to do that he use the P series design and design language / dna with a modern touch of his/pininfarina's

4th) (His goal was to revive the "coachbuilding" era) that what he said at the time correct but his action later make me believe otherwise as well as he attacks on Ferrari.

5th) (Jim made car that performed better) that's easy when this version was newer.

6th) As I have already said. Jim and Pininfarina did a great job making a Tribute car

finally) I know all the history I was here when Jim was a member and was developing it and was active in the discussions was also invited like others to the track. I liked Jim but My attitude for Jim changed over time with the way he conducted himself and treated others.
The Enzo design was very focus on its goals than its look and Ferrari later before the P4/5 that they could have done better there. You sound like an upset fan boy. Instead of someone sharing a difference of opinion and what they recall / known from along time ago.

 

Were the performance figures of P4/5 ever published to confirm improvement over the Enzo?

 

I have been critical of Jim where it's warranted. That doesn't cloud my opinion at all of the positive things he has accomplished.

I agree with the factual points in nearly all of the above, but have a very different take. I view the fact that he pulled this off without Ferrari's cooperation as the thing that makes it a far more impressive accomplishment, and probably something that nobody else would have (or could have) achieved. If Ferrari had a modern coachbuilding option at that time, then what he built would simply be "rich guy doing rich guy things". I'd still be impressed with it because of how tasteful the result was, but I wouldn't view it as massive of an accomplishment. The fact that he pulled it off without Ferrari's cooperation makes it a far, far more impressive achievement that (in my opinion) nobody else would have or could have done. The Ferrari endorsement, after initially being against it, is a testament to the quality of the end product.

Regarding the "of course it was better because it was newer" comment -- that doesn't make any sense to me. First of all, it was only a two or three years newer -- performance technology does not move that fast that that time delta is meaningful. Second, it was not a typical Ferrari model but Ferrari's "once a decade" supercar that represents the absolute best performance they can create. The Enzo, more than any other of their supercars, was definitely "function over form" design. It was pretty tough to better the Enzo's performance. I'd have been impressed if P4/5's far more attractive body just matched the performance of the Enzo.

It's not anything like a "tribute car" rebody in my opinion (though it definitely uses Enzo mechanicals). Rebodies on all Ferrari's, especially modern, are usually a disaster and skin deep. P4/5 was a thoroughly engineered car that was to such a high level of quality that Ferrari endorsed it as an official Ferrari model.

I don't know how anyone can make a negative out of what he accomplished with P4/5, but I guess we can all have our own interpretation of events.

 

Ok, good we now seem to have our communication on the same wave length.

-Its a bit more than 2 - 3 years as you have to remember Ferrari had to pick a point about 2 years out from launch. where basically no new technology is added. so Jim had close to 5 years to make some performance improvements. Not sure what those were I don't think it was ever said or seen. All I know is he said it was faster than an Enzo.

-Tribute is just what I call it. But yes the Team at Pininfarina did an amazing job all around and Jim had a great vision.
I did and still do love the car, just soured by his conduct. (personal opinion of course)
LDM just saw the car I don't think he as told much or wanted to know much else. I do remember Jim saying when he was shown the car they had to show him a pic of the P4 and P5 it was based on so that he could see recall them.
The real reason for endorsement would be a subject only LDM would known.

-If I had to pick between having the P4/5 or a SP3 Daytona I would take the SP3 all day. Modern performance aside. I think the SP3 is a much more stunning car visually. My personal opinion of course. But again Jim still created something very special.

-

 

I can't see 30 being sold to date. Feels like a marketing post. don't delay buy one now only a few left, sorta thing

 

True, but this applies to P4/5 just as much. They didn't spend two years (or whatever, I don't remember now how long it took) building the car and then when it was done add "newest technology" ET slot mags and Cherry Bomb exhaust . All of the innovation needed to be baked into the design before they built it, just like Ferrari, so it really was only a gap of 2-3 years.

They did publish the specs that bettered the Enzo -- I think it was lower aerodynamic drag, lighter weight, higher top speed -- but that's going from memory from nearly 20 years ago, so I could easily be wrong. I don't recall the specs ever being tested/validated, but my guess is that if they were wrong, Ferrari would have said something (would not let specs bettering the Enzo stand if it wasn't the case).

You can call it anything you want, but I don't it is accurate to refer to it as a "Tribute" when it is approved as an official Ferrari model. I understand perceptions being clouded by other events, but that should not diminish what was accomplished with the P4/5 effort. I just don't think there's much to legitimately criticize about P4/5 -- and nobody else would have even thought of doing it, let alone pulled it off.

You are suggesting that approval of the car was not well considered and just a whim by LDM. While I have no inside information, I can guarantee you 1000% this was not the case. Ferrari is the most valuable brand in the world. A huge percentage of Ferrari's profit and market cap comes directly from the brand and future performance is 100% reliant on maintaining the elite status of that brand. Approving just about any other customer rebody as an official Ferrari model would severely weaken the brand. There is no way they would approve P4/5 as a Ferrari unless the car was equal to or exceeded the standards of what Ferrari could produce. They likely didn't need to do much personal inspection, since they knew everything about the design and how it was built throughout the project, but there is no doubt approving it was not a lightly considered decision. Nobody needs to protect its brand more than Ferrari.

 

LDM was not aware of the P4/5 development and Ferrari were not involved in it in any way. PF told LDM about it and he flew by helicopter to PF headquarters to see it. He decided to appoint it as a ‘Ferrari’ then Ferrari changed their policies regarding coachworked Ferrari’s.

 

Thanks for the additional info. I've stated as much that Ferrari wan't involved in development, which is what makes the project and later endorsement so impressive. P4/5 development was public on Fchat from pretty early days, so I'd be surprised if nobody had caught wind of it. My only point is that Ferrari would not have approved the car if it wasn't up to the quality that Ferrari would have produced itself, because brand image is (and always has been) extremely critical to Ferrari's business success.

 

Not a whim. but I believe there was a reason that he did it and I feel he would have preferred not to have if not for this reason. Part of that reason is Pininfarina. Ferrari is in the top ten brands world wide but they are also one of the few that do very little marketing as their car sell themselves. They put there money into VIP services and events over it.