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GM offers buyouts to 74,000

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by jk0001, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. jk0001

    jk0001 F1 Veteran

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  3. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

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    I don't see how this will improve things for GM....dumping the experienced people for inexperienced labor? That should work wonders to restore public confidence that GM builds a reliable, quality product. NOT.

    Perhaps if GM re-worked their Engineering staff and encouraged them to actually design and build cars/trucks that Americans actually wanted to buy....well, what a novel idea....silly me.
     
  4. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Perhaps if the CEO's of the company would take a pay-cut that would help. These are the clowns that allowed crappy products to be built in the first place, which caused the US car builders to fall flat on their faces. These clowns should be paid 50k a year until they can show a better bottom line.
     
  5. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    I agree, but... it doesn't give them an incentive to stick around, does it?
     
  6. Houston348

    Houston348 Formula 3

    Oct 18, 2006
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    if this is an attempt to get rid of the unions, i think it is a good idea. the unions have killed the US automakers.

    personally, i think unions are rediculous. i mean, look at the writer's strike. its a market economy. if you dont like your job, quit and find another one. if you are an employer and you dont pay well, people will quit and your business will fail. funny how that supply/demand thing you learned in middle school ACTUALLY WORKS.
     
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  8. Westworld

    Westworld Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Wagoner has improved the company's operations quite a bit. I think you'll have to go back to previous management to blame for such crappy union deals. GM's starting to turn out better products.
     
  9. DennisForza

    DennisForza Formula 3

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    +1
     
  10. jk0001

    jk0001 F1 Veteran

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  11. Asian1118

    Asian1118 F1 Rookie

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    Cadillac is definitely turning out better products.
     
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  13. wingfeather

    wingfeather F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2007
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    If they'd only get rid of the UNION - US car makers would have a fighting chance. Unions are dragging them down!

    +1 Gm in general is better (IMHO) than any company out there right now. Even there entry level cars are amazing! Much better values than imports!
     
  14. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
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    IMO it's another nail in the coffin for the US worker as GM becomes even more globalist to make a buck. The next thing to go is more US factories as cars will be made in countries with low wages and minuscule benefits.
     
  15. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

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    "Make a buck"? You mean "stay alive" right? GM "higher ups" have been screwing the golden goose for years with their hands wrapped around it's neck giving it all they got and the workers getting $40 an hour to work on the line and the many hundreds of millions of dollars thrown away each year on nothing, poor quality vehicles, recycled ideas etc, the list is endless. GM WILL fail it's a matter of time. Bell Canada will be bought and torn apart IT'S a matter of time.

    Raping your own company and it being this big should be punishable by death. The ocean that will crash down on the people who will lose their jobs, the ones that have lost their jobs and the ones who are working part time now from working full time will destroy lives and families. Criminal charges should be sought for every rich pig who has screwed that goos for the last 15 years.

    You can't get a ship THAT big in this kind of mess without warning, this is a tragedy.
     
  16. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

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    I disagree....the Unions, and the 'Union Deals' would be affordable if GM were still selling Sport Utes at the rate they were 3-5 years ago.....the Japanese and the Germans are profitable, building cars in the US, and probably with Union labor...if they can do it, GM can too.

    WITHOUT Unions, workers will be stripped of their salaries, their healthcare benefits, their retirement pensions, etc. You will attract 'Taco Bell' talent under those working conditions - how does this possibly help GM? If GM accomplishes this, but doesn't change their PRODUCT, they still fail anyway and will have gained nothing, other than to destroy their workforce.
     
  17. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Not true at all.

    The union deals are not affordable at all. GM's biggest problem is their gigantic health care costs. In Europe, health care is generally covered by the government, so when a worker retires his costs become essentially zero. In the USA the unions cornered GM into lifelong health care. So with the massive rise in health care costs, and the fact that these guys are getting it for life, GM just can't afford it.

    They ought to declare bankruptcy and shed the burden of health care costs for retired workers. Or just find a way to get rid of the union, period.

    Saying it's the fault of the product is lunacy. That's like me taxing you at a 95% tax rate. When you tell me you have no money, I say "well if you MADE more, then you'd HAVE more". The unions have strangled all the profits out of GM in years past. The only way they could ever be profitable is if costs were trimmed to the bone, upper management made practically nothing, most/all of their cars were homerun successes, etc. And if that ever happened the unions would be coming back to them looking for their piece of that pie.
     
  18. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    How would that help? You want crappy executives running the place? The executives compensation is in line with executive compensation for companies of that size.

    The workers compensation is most certainly NOT in line with other companies that size - it's waaaaay higher. A lot of people talk out their azz about the problems at GM. Just take a look at the financials and the problems are abundantly clear. Crushing health care costs because their workers get free health care for life. No employer offers that - GM can't afford it.
     
  19. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

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    Healthcare costs are EVERYONE's problem, not just for GM....aren't you aware of that? If GM shed its healthcare burden tomorrow, are you assuming that their workers wouldn't still NEED it? If Starbucks can sell coffee, make a profit, AND offer their baristas healthcare nationwide, so can GM. Were you under the assumption that Toyota and Mercedes aren't offering healthcare to their American workers? You're arguing that because healthcare is expensive, people should just 'do without'....nice. BTW, who is paying YOUR healthcare? Your company? Yea, I thought so.

    BTW, if the workers at GM all worked, essentally, 'for free' and still made the same car they're making today (and assuming they still charged the same price for it) would you buy one? How many GM cars do you own?
     
  20. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
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    I seem to remember reading somewhere that $3,500 of every car GM sold went to pay for health care costs. Does anyone know if this is true? Also is it true that the employees pay zero for health insurance ?
     
  21. Fred2

    Fred2 F1 World Champ
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    I think this is just the first part of China's plan to take over the world.
    Once the manufacturing capabilities of other nations are decimated, and the the standard of living of the workers has been lowered, they will be prime targets for takeover.

    Communism, here we come.
     
  22. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Sorry, but you just have no idea what you are talking about. It is a problem MUCH MORE SO for GM because they pay a much larger amount for health care than anyone else does. Don't you realize that? They pay all their union workers health care for life - even after retirement. Go do the research and see if other companies do that. I'll save you the trouble - they don't. Comparing GM to Starbucks is just ignorant, they are nothing alike, their business models are nothing alike and neither are their employment situations.

    As for who pays my health care, I do. Who pays yours? I also pay health care for all of my employees. Who else do YOU pay for? Yeah, I thought so.

    As for GM's cars - again you are speaking from a position of complete ignorance. That you may not like their cars it utterly irrelevant. They sell a *lot* of cars. They absolutely can be a profitable company. Their sales numbers can easily support a profitable enterprise but what they do NOT allow is for GM to compete with other car companies AND also pay exorbitant health care costs. They need to shed the burden of their massive and excessive health care costs if they want to survive. Again, saying they should be able to pay these costs if they just make cars people want is silly. That's not the problem at all.
     
  23. wingfeather

    wingfeather F1 Rookie

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    +1 That is rediculous... they need to ditch the unions.

    Nothing is wrong with their products... the Malibu/Aura (for example) meets or exceeds any car at that price.
     
  24. Fred2

    Fred2 F1 World Champ
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    And while we are at it, let's get rid of: Minimum wage, paid vacations, paid overtime and child labor laws.
     
  25. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

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    And just who is GM losing market share to, themselves? They are (were) a competitive business. You're equating their product to that of Honda or Toyota - yet, they are not truely equal or they would NOT be losing market share. They would be maintaining it if GM offered an 'equal' product - and GM is not maintaining market share. Do you think dumping healthcare costs, without changing their product, will suddenly inspire people to buy GM cars again? By the fact that you don't actually OWN a GM car tells me what you think of their product, so you've proven my point exactly. They don't make a car you want to own. They don't make a car a LOT of people want to own, and they haven't for some time now. You see, there was a time when GM Management could afford whatever Management and the Union negotiated regarding benefits for Union members. The money was there, because GM had a better product, and was selling it. Where is that 'better product' now? You're claiming that all you have to do is just 'cut costs', and that 'better product' is unnecessary - or, if you EXPLOIT your workers more, they'll reward being exploited by providing a 'better product' just for the heck of it.....where did you get your business training, Beijing University?
     
  26. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
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    I don't hink there is anything wrong with their current lineup , however based on previous models I am not willing to gamble $25K plus on them. I'll stick with my Honda that has 168,000 miles and has cost me less than .02 cents per mile in maint. including tires and oil changes.
     
  27. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I feel the problem with the US auto industry is that it is focused on money rather than product.

    Workers have paid standby time.
    Crazy retirement benefits to those no longer employed.
    Prez and VP salaries average 30 times those of workers.
    Stockholders want returns NOW.
    Top to bottom the industry has cancer.
    All are killing the Golden Goose before the next guy gets his cut.

    They have to get back to the basics; Quality and its perception in the public eye.
     
  28. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
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    I honestly don't know if I see myself ever owning another new American car. I see myself owning some pre 1965 American cars but the shrinking 3 just don't have any products that I think would make a great daily driver. I currently have one American product a Ford Expedition and the treatment for service has been so bad (dealer and factory I don't care attitude) when I decide to get rid of it I will be replacing it with a Honda Pilot I won't even consider another Ford product.
     

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