GM offers buyouts to 74,000

You still want to drive a 20 year old Taurus???

Disposable cars: how is this different from any other foreign make? Taken a look at a vintage 1985 Hyundai Excel lately? Rolling scrap heaps...

 

I owned a 2001 Chevy. No problems, zero costs. Ir ran the same at 10 miles as it did at 80,000 miles (when I traded it for something different).

I bought a 98 Taurus (used) with 200,000 miles. Ran like a champ! Everything was still in working order...

People who think American = problems are living in the past. Like 20 years in the past.

 

Are you implying that the above benefits only exist because of unions???

I have a decent wage, paid vacation & overtime... never worked union in my life.

 

Nope, sorry. No import automaker plant in the US is Union, the companies won't allow it.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

 

+1 Unions suck. They're just eating up money for themselves and seem to serve no-one else. It's why Wal-Mart refuses them.

I just hope GM doesn't start hiring undocumented illegals.....

Ok, bad joke...

 

GM has to make this step to start heading in the right direction. Their product line is improving but with the ghosts of past union agreements haunting them it's nearly impossible to be profitable.

It's some sour medicine to get to a brighter future.. but I'm glad it's finally happening.

 

I agree American auto workers are overpaid. My wife works at GM and the benefits package is just ridiculous.

I think that American Industry became doomed 25 years ago when they started paying exec's with stock. They began to care only about the stock price and not about the future of their companies. Why should they care they'll be gone in 3 years anyhow.

I also blame it on the attitude of the american public particularly around Detroit. People stick up for the big 3 and shun Honda and Toyota. They can't see that those companies are investing in new plants here while Ford and GM are investing in new plants in India and China.

 

Auto workers are grossly overpaid. They work assembly line, non college requiring, repetetive, menial, jobs. Screwing together a car is not a 40$ (60$ with benefits) job. Thats ludicrous. Just to put it in perspective, a typical internist might make 100$/hour. A typical lawyer may net less than that for the first 10 years.

Unions have forced unreasonable labor rates onto the world. Its hard to argue that their rates are fair when nonunion plants run at 50% of the labor cost, and do it well. Labor unions artificially raise the income levels of its members, through coercion/strikes...

It won't be long until the US carmakers go belly up/restructure. I am sure that the government will step in and save them. Oh, I mean, my tax dollars will go in and save them...

 

While this may be true, Union wages and benefits set a reference point for other employers.

If there were no Unions, you would have a lower wage, no paid vacation and no paid overtime.

 

It's perception and image.

My poor old 1/2 ton Chevy van, worked hard and put up wet, with 200k miles has been pretty good.
3 Fuel pumps at $250 a whack DIY. This has to be a design flaw.
3 power steering pumps ( warranty all ) Stops found to be set wrong.
and a tranny.
Decent fuel mileage.
Not too bad.

 

OK Chevy, Ford, Chysler
Heres a tip ;
See the "Dodge" ( Mercedes ) Sprinter ?
COPY it !
Pop up a van roof, add a bulletproof efficient diesel.
Now dont rape me with a 30k+ sticker.
I bought the 1/2 ton van for $15k. Add $5k. I'll do that.

See the Lous Elise?
Copy it.
The markup has to be astronomical.
Sell the copy for $25k.

Do what their doing to you.

 

Maybe, but perception is everything. I had 3 Cadillacs 1 88 and 2 92's the 88 went 100K miles (new shocks and alternator), both of the 92's went for 150K miles ( shocks , alternators , heater hoses and serpentine belts on both) . Not what I would call problems none of them ever left me stranded, they did have more squeaks and rattles than you could shake a stick at. On the other hand my mother bought a delta 88 in 1986 brand new, 100 miles drivers armrest fell off, 1,000 miles the seat started splitting, 1500 miles the pass armrest fell off, 3000 miles 4 screws fell out of the dash when going over railroad tracks, 5,000 miles the windshield started leaking. 10,000 it needed a transmission at 30,000 miles the engine had to be replaced. I wonder why they don't make oldsmobiles anymore???

 

Although there was once a need for unions that is no longer true. The unions themselves are now fat with overpaid non-working execs.

 

This is a key fact. Not to mention the fact that they don't have the health car costs (retirement) of GM.


http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/07/news/companies/gm_turnaround.fortune/index.htm

 

First off, paid overtime is protected by law.

Secondly, wages and benefits are created by supply and demand. To say that without unions, you wouldn't have these is nonsense. Many big US companies seem to offer these perks without unions.

 

Labor unions have outlived their functionality. In order for the Union model to work, the UAW would need to continuously be looking at the global competitiveness of their corporate partners, and adjust their wage targets accordingly. They seem hell-bent on maintaining their stand to the bitter end. Currently the UAW unionized workers earn over $30/hour plus a heavy benefits package. If this continues, the days of the Unionized labor worker in North America are numbered. The UAW workers should be thinking this...what is better? Having a job at $22 per hour with reasonable benefits, or no job at all? Many of these unionized workers who take a buyout, end up in minimum wage jobs. I wonder if they wish they would have been more reasonable with their demands in the previous years?

 

Union benefits are re-negotiated all the time, and re-adjusted if the industry requires it - the airline unions do it all the time. If it means total bankrupcy of the company and lost jobs, people go back to the bargaining table. However, and you may have missed this point in all the 'Union-Bashing' going on, but if the Union evaporated tomorrow, this wouldn't make a SINGLE GM car any 'better' than what they are now - not any more reliable, more fuel efficient, faster, better handling, higher quality, etc. It would still be a CRAP car - no matter how much (or how little) those Union benfits might cost the company. How well, or how bad, a company treats its workers is not exactly a strong motivating factor regarding the purchase of an automobile. GM will still lose market share to other car makers who build and sell a better product.

 

^^^ This directly links to motivation to the workers. "If you make too many mistakes, you're outta here!" If you can be fired for being lazy, late, uncooperative, rude, incompetent etc, then you'll have a stronger team because no one would want to lose their job and if you did, you would replace them with a better employee.

That's my biggest beef with unions. People in unions know exactly how lazy, slow and rude they can be without the risk of being fired. They know every paragraph of their contract and every rule and sub section that applies to them. If you ask them how to make their department or product better, they wouldn't have a clue of where to start.

I know a woman who cost a business $56,000,000 because she was to lazy or stupid to fill out a few forms each year and mail them in. After four years of this, she was finally fired.

 

Crap cars? You obviously aren't familiar with their latest products, one of which has been rated better than the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. I agree that if the Union evaporated that it wouldn't make the cars any better. HOWEVER, it would make the company far more cost-competitive. That is a FACT. Why the heck do you think that auto manufacturers are opening plants in China and other markets? Cost savings. Plain and simple. Union labor is way too expensive. It has nothing to do with quality, or anything. The 2 top-quality manufacturing plants are GM plants. That is a fact. Regardless of that, the labor is stil too expensive. The unions will ultimately be responsible for their member employees to be out of jobs. They will go from making $35 per hour, to $12 per hour. Does that sound good to you? It's not too late for them to re-consider their business model.