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Good price for a 1993 Series Speciale 348ts

Discussion in '348/355' started by spyderman33, Aug 9, 2004.

  1. spyderman33

    spyderman33 Formula Junior

    Jan 9, 2004
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    Julian
    I am looking at a 93 - 348 SS with about 38,000 miles on the clock.. Claims to have had the 30K engine out service done.. This is the same one listed on Ferrari ads..

    what do you guys think pricing should be on this car providing the PPI checks and out and the car is in the A+ state the owner claims?

    Thanks in advance!
     
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  3. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    Dec 31, 2003
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    The "SS" part of the equation means prices can be all over the board. The "SS" really is just a ts with some shoe polish, but SS owners will often have "fairies and sugar plums" dancing in their heads re: the car's value. So it's a supply and demand thing, and how motivated the owner is to sell. As a general rule, it seems the SS's bring a $5K to $10K premium over the rest of the 348 ts stable.

    The "exclusivity" of the SS is purely marketing. I am amused when I hear "it's one of only 80 (or is it 100?) SS's imported to the U.S. I can go one better with my ts: My 348 ts is one of only 5 that were produced the second week of October 1990! So?

    The SS ideally should only be worth a premium if there are distinct and unique features about the car that cannot easily be replicated. Such is not the case with the SS. Paint your rockers, change out your seats, change your badge and now your ts is an "ss". Am I missing something here?
     
  4. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Julian, unlike our freind who has the 90 ts 348, there is a difference in the SS car. They were made by the factor to help the brand sell some cars that took a beating from a direct cause of the recession. I have driven both the 348, and the 348 special. The looks a more refined as our freind says, but it does have abit more horsepower and the regular 348, and its came in the later run of the 348 era. The suspension was abit better for handling and oh yeah, did I say it has MORE HORESPOWER !! The car delivers a bit better than the regular 348, and yes its worth a few bucks more, but not by much. Color combo of course is important, but the milelage and track events are more important. Drive the car, see if you like, and then do some real homework on this car and follow its history and service with ownership as much as possible. Personally, for the same money I would buy the 348 with less miles and a non tracked car over the SS if it was higher mileage and tracked. If it was cheaper then I would consider the SS.
     
  5. spyderman33

    spyderman33 Formula Junior

    Jan 9, 2004
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    Julian
    Rick, thanks for the response... The guy is asking $59K for the car with about 37K miles.. Like I thought, if this were a "normal" 348ts it would be overpriced.. I am not too familiar with the SS in terms of pricing and how much of a premium it should command..

    Like I said, I will need to see the car personally but assuming all is well, including maintenance records, etc, what is a fair value?

    How much more HP does it actually have?

    Julian
     
  6. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It went from 300 to 312 HP, but there were some changes to the suspension. It does drive pretty nice over the regular 348. In Toronto I was looking at one and was going for 100k CDN funds which is 60K US funds, but it had 10,000miles (15KM) not 37 miles. I think its a bit high in price. And Im also talking back in 1999. I then drove an 86TR and was blown away by the difference and for the same money back then I went for the TR. If I didnt look at a TR, it would have been the 348SS, it is such a great car, everything is well done on this car as it evolved, and the extra HP, as little as it sounds, it is noticeable if you drive both cars. In T.O if you could find one with that mileage it should be the same as a normal 348 about 80-85K, which I would figure is 50-55k in u.s funds. I would suspect that both cars side by side equal the SS would carry a 7-10% premuim.Hope this helps.
     
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  8. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3
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    Julian,

    In November of 2001, I paid $65,000 for my 1993 SS TB with 10,000 miles with out the major service in excellent condition inside and out. About a year later I spent another $7,000 on a major with a little clutch flywheel work. I'm sure that you have researched the following facts about the SS:
    1.) The front spoiler has a lower chin that may or may not help with curb rubbing and aerodynamics.
    2.) Obviously the rear lights are less grill. (my favorite part)
    3.) It has a lower gear ratio for quicker starts (same as the spiders I believe)
    4.) It has a wider rear stance due to a slight offset increase on the rear rims (same as the spiders I believe). Improved handling.
    5.) Most if not all of the electrical bugs have been worked out.
    6.) There were an optional carbon fiber seats available at the time (very similar to the seats in an F40). I have the carbon fiber seats and at 5'8" 195 lbs., my butt fits very snug.
    7.) Minor interior door panel upgrades.
    8.) Like others have pointed out, mono-color paint job.
    9.) Yes, only 100 produced for the US market.
    10.) In my opinion the best looking of all the 348s.


    With that being said, I would not sell my car today for less than $60,000. Others my feel that I am dreaming, but since I am the owner of 1 of the 100 SS out there I control the selling price for this car. As many have said before, a car is worth what a willing buyer and seller agree upon.

    ps. I don't have to paint my car or add stuff to make it look like an SS, because it is an SS. Additionally, most poeple buying a Ferrari appreciate originality.
     
  9. RAYMAN

    RAYMAN Formula Junior
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    Sadly Husker is right. The extra horse power is not even there. Mine is confirmed at 300. The rear track has been widened a little , but I'm not sure this really makes a noticable difference. It was kind of a feeble attempt at marketing, but it does and should command a little premium over standard models. I thnk $59K is a fair price if it's in excellent condition.
     
  10. Noelrp

    Noelrp Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2001
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    Yes, you forgot the badge. But kidding aside, the SS does command a little premium but not because only 100 were made (115 actually as Ferrari made additional 15 in '94) but because it has many improvements in which will cost you more $$ to duplicate (i.e. F40 seats at $7k ea).

    Good luck
     
  11. tclark

    tclark Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2004
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    Tom Clark
    $59,000 is probably a fair price IF:
    all services have in fact been done, and the car is well sorted out. I mean
    all issues have been taken care of.

    Additionally, with that mileage, it might lower the price slightly. On the
    other hand, some would feel that the higher mileage is an asset in that
    it has been driven as it was meant.

    Bottom line, verify the service records, go see the car in person, talk to
    the mechanic, have a ppi done by an authorized Ferrari dealership or
    non-related, qualified third party, then , if everything is right, make
    your offer.

    Best of luck
     
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  13. spyderman33

    spyderman33 Formula Junior

    Jan 9, 2004
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    Jerry

    Good info.. I just started dialogue with the current owner and I am gauging what the correct pricing should be for this car..
    You provided great info on the car.. It is dead on as to the many things I have been researching..

    One of the important aspects the owner really couldn't provide me with was whether the AC does or doesn't work well.. He states that he hardly uses it.. I can tell you that Miami with no A/C in a mid-engine car is deadly.. I am spoiled with the NSX's A/C being ice cold.. Series Speciale or not, I need a good A/C!

    Does anyone have any good recommendations as to where I can have an honest PPI done in the Indianapolis area?
    I may need to post this in the regional section.

    Thanks everyone for the feedback.. Love this place!
     
  14. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3
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    Julian,

    I live in Houston which is similar Miami's weather. Here is what I can say about the 348 AC system. I drove my 348 SS yesterday afternoon. The outside temp was about 92 with 75-80% humidity. The AC was set on 69. While I was not freezing, I was pretty comfortable. I have never had a problem, except when it is extremely humid; sometimes it is difficult to get the windshield to de-fog. As with most older cars (10 years plus) there will be some freon leakage. When I had my major service performed, I believe the shop had to add about one pound of freon (ofcourse to the recycled freon that was previously removed).

    The're nice cars. I wish you well!

    No info on a PPI in Indi.
     
  15. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3
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    HEY NOEL,

    Where did all that water come from? I thought Ferraris were not suppose to get wet!
     
  16. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 20, 2003
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    Bear in mind that December 1992 saw launch of Serie Speciale.

    In February 1993 - Spider intro came with upgrades that became standard on the rest of the 348 range: more efficient exhaust system, new valve springs, timing belt and final drive ratios plus Bosch's improved Motronic 2.7 engine management system.

    While the 10 hp increase was attributed to improved exhaust system, was
    3.) lower gear ratio same as Spider?
    6.) Thank you for this info - I didn't realize there was a Carbon Fiber Option for SS, if one did not wish to have Kevlar/Leather seats.
     
  17. Noelrp

    Noelrp Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2001
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    Ha! i took the pix after washing the car. True, it has been few months since the car saw water.

    Comments about the CF seats: SS came with CF seats. Most orig owners requested the standard seats bec. to some it's uncomfortable. I have both and use the standard seats. The CF seats are not recommended for long driving and it's a chore to get in and out. It's beautiful though.
     
  18. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    Hey SS'ers...judging from follow-up posts to my post, I sense that some were offended at my comments about the SS. I am not disrespecting the SS in any way - it is a beautiful car. My point was, from a pure "premium" standpoint compared to the "beater" 348's (such as mine), the differences are negligible. Yes, there are a host of differences as pointed out, but negligible differences. "Less electrical problems" is so ambiguous I would never think of factoring THAT into any price equation. ALL Ferrari models are plagued with various electrical problems from the 04's on down the line.

    All of that said, the "exclusivity" of the 348 SS DOES IN FACT command a premium of $5 to $10K over the normal, everyday run-of-the-mill ordinary plain jane old 348. No one's denying THAT. But there's not much of a way one can JUSTIFY the price premium in terms of ACTUAL DIFFERENCES: It is doubtful the SS cost Ferrari one dime more to build than these beater 348's.

    SORRY IF I OFFENDED.
     
  19. vrlopez

    vrlopez Rookie

    Aug 3, 2004
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    San Jose, Ca.
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    Victor
    Ok, let me throw this in, Im looking at a 1990 348ts 143800 miles, Tubi with test pipes, all records,tools 30,000 done. I was told from a third party that has seen the car that its flawless. So whats the deal with the electrical system, is this something that all 1990's need to have worked out? Is there anything else that would need attention. Why are the 1993's Anyway the person is ask $58,000, seems very high to me
     
  20. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    143800 miles or should it be 43800 miles?
     
  21. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3
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    Wax,

    What is the difference between a Carbon Fiber seat and a Kevlar seat? Obviously that are both covered in leather. But really, I don't know what the difference is!
     
  22. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3
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    Based upon what I have seen and come to understand about the 348 line. The early models like the 1990s were known to have a few readily correctable electrical problems. For example: under-powered alternators and possibly grounding problems. Most of these early cars were corrected at the Ferrari dealerships while they were still under warranty. If possible, you want to make sure your car has had the alternator update. Do a search on this site and you find lots of info. Other updates and services to look at would include, updating the clutch slave cylinder/throw out bearing assembly and replacing the flywheel grease. Finally, later cars in a model series will most likely command a higher price because most buyers will assume the model and been perfected, with many, if not all issues resolved.

    My opinion.
     
  23. RAMMER

    RAMMER Formula 3

    Feb 20, 2004
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    I think Cavallino Motors in Miami has a black 348 with 30-40k miles on it that is selling for $48k.
     
  24. vrlopez

    vrlopez Rookie

    Aug 3, 2004
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    Victor
    Thanks guys the car has 14k I'll ask about the other items mentioned. One more question does anyone know about 348 gts converted for us market do they hold their value, are they worth looking in to. Thanks in advance
     
  25. bob348

    bob348 Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2004
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    Geoffrey
    for me the best 348 ever is the 348 competizione road car....
    only 50 made, but only in europe i think
     
  26. RAYMAN

    RAYMAN Formula Junior
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    Either way their uncomfortable as hell, and you better be thin. I don't think this is a plus for the car, even though they may look good.
     
  27. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    One thing is for certain, they weren't introduced in the Americas. I hesitate to say "Europe only" only because of possibility some went to Asia - someday, maybe even today - we'll positively know.

    Nevertheless - there's a good overview of all the 348's here:
    http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/348versions.html
     
  28. $$$=SPEED

    $$$=SPEED F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2004
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    Depends who's asking
    The AC is a big factor to look into. Has been one the "the" issues that seems always needs to be taken care of. Make sure all service has been done and get your PPI. Best of luck to you.
     

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