Hello, this is my first post on the forum-- very nice resource btw! i'm looking for a 550 and a local dealer has a le mans blue 99 with 3k miles. any opinions on what fair price range would be? thanks for any feedback!
kephren - where are you (US?)? you might put a bit more data into your profile - that'll help with questions like this. has the major service been done or not? will it include a pre-owned warranty? is the seller an authorized dealer or not? doody.
hi doody, thanks for the help. i'm in pittsburgh, pa and the dealership is not a ferrari dealership (they do aston martin's and jags). the car is being sold without warranty, but i'm told the 15k mile service will be performed if necessary. i suppose they're certified to work on ferraris? the car was owned by two owners both of whom traded it back to him on astons. he said it was given the once over for inspection purposes and i understood him as stating the some of the service checklist was performed-- he mentioned the timing belts were examined by his tech and were pronounced in fine shape and not in need of replacing. i'm very new to this game, so i want to know if what i'm getting into is just standard proceedure or if these are red flags and i'm lusting after the car too much to notice. thanks again k
Definitely get a PPI done by a Ferrari dealer or well respected independent. Having someone "look" at the belt doesn't give me a very high comfort level. In fact, the belts of very low mileage cars are the ones at most risk. As far as price goes, I'd say that the average real price range for a 1999 is roughly $115 to $125 with average miles of 12,000. Let us know what happens, DrTax
hi doc, thanks for the input! yea i started to wonder too whether i should get a third party involved. i'm not up on the ferrari jargon, but i assume PPI to be an evaluation by a certified ferrari specialist? the price they're after is $135k and considering the very low miles and great shape i figured it was pretty fair. contrary to what i had heard bench racing around the campfire, the salesman assured me that modern ferrari v12s are pretty low maintenance. do you agree? or perhaps he was reaching a bit, in which case do you know of any common problems with these cars that might be laying in wait for me? buying a used car (or any car, for that matter) with no warranty is going to be a gamble any way you look at it. i'm sure there are ways to mitigate some of the risks-- this PPI perhaps--- but considering i jump in with both feet what could go wrong with this car after sitting for 5 years and only clocking 3k miles and how much $$$ would i be forced to drop to bring her back up to snuff? best, k
Welcome to the Board. Remembering my first posts when I was doing the same thing as you- looking for a used 550, you're right to be cautious. This Board was a huge help in walking me thru the process and helping me to make the right decision. Some points: 1. For these cars, 12k is not low mileage so there should be no premium in price. He's asking 135K: you should offer 115K. Meeting somewhere in the middle is probably reasonable for the market. 2. You need to get a PPI from a reputable dealer. This is an ABSOLUTE!! Do NOT buy the car without it. 3. Routine maintenance on a 550 will, over a 3-year period, cost as little as 5k or as much as 10, depending upon the previous history of the car. 4. Speaking of history, for these cars, it's highly desirable to have the complete maintenance records. If the salesperson can't produce them, then the price should drop. 5. There have been some factory recalls on this car. Some critical issues such as fuel lines and cracks in the original wheels have all been addressed by the factory. These were expensive fixes done free by the FNA but if there was something not quite right about the car, Ferrari will not honor the recall-so its critical you find out about the history and get the maintenance records as well. The salesman should know about these and be able to verify that they were done. If he doesn't, you can find out by getting the VIN and calling Ferrari North America. But if he resists, I would walk on this car. 6. There are a lot of great 550's out there. For the most part, they were driven correctly and maintained well. Don't be too anxious...you'll find the perfect car. What color are you looking for?
i spoke to Mark and told him that the 15k service is a waste of time, the cars 5yrs old and has not been use much, that doesnt make it better in fact that could be worse. it needs a MAJOR service simple as that, so you need to subtract 5-6k the max you should pay is $120k if you look around you can find 2000 with major for $125k DONT RUSH IN, TAKE YOUR TIME. remember low miles is not always the best way to go.
I'd second this emotion. See this thread on how I brought mine: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22301 There are lots of Maranellos out there. I have put together a spreadsheet showing every 550 for sale on the Internet and have counted 107 cars. Finally, this is just my opinion, but I'd seriously consider buying through a Ferrari dealer and getting in on the new extended warranty program. Ferraris have always been very expensive cars to get fixed, but the computer stuff in the newer cars has compounded this problem. Some think that the warranty is not worth it, but I wouldn't want to be without a safety net. Good luck, Dale ps PPI means prepurchase inspection. Sorry. pps Maranellos are great cars and are probably the deal of the century right now. Geeze these cars originally sold for $215K! ppps After you drive one, you'll be hooked.
there are things you can do to mitigate the risk. first, as has been stated previously, get a professional inspection by a qualified mechanic. a solid PPI. leakdown and compression tests too. buy from an FNA dealer and get a two year warranty on the car. this is likely to be your best bang for the buck if you negotiate hard. don't buy a garage queen. make sure the car includes all its service records. have your PPI mechanic review them himself and then with you. 3K miles on a car that might be as old as six years (aug/sep 1998 build date) isn't a win. the more these cars sit, the more problems are likely to crop up. 500 miles per year is sub-optimal. we've seen worse of course, but you'd probably be better off with a 1999 that has 9K to 12K miles on it. my 1999 has only had one serious maintenance issue, the motor mounts, and from what we can tell, it's 'cuz it mostly sat for a couple years. the list is extensive. worst-case: the belts have hardened up, you take it out on that highway that connects pitt and penn and punch it up through one of those glorious through-mountain tunnels and the belt snaps. your top-end is toast. new valves. new pistons. etc. etc. $25K to $35K in work. for example. now, my recollection is that NOBODY on this board has EVER heard of a 550 belt failing during non-track use, but if it does fail it's a lot of demage. you asked for the dire scenario . it depends on what you're comparing it to. my rule of thumb is to hope for $2K per year in maintenance - $1K per year for four years and then $6K in the fifth year. if that's "low" then so be it. i don't think it's low . that said, ime the 550 is a pretty damn solid car - as long as you drive it. doody.
thank you all for the great responses. well, got good news and bad news... i spoke with the salesman about the maintenance records and he said he could produce them and voulenteered to contact the two previous owners and see if they would chat with me about the car. he said no problem if i wanted to get a 3rd party PPI and even said he would check with the local ferrari dealer about getting an extended warranty and complete inspection. unfortunately, he also said that the car is sold pending funds.... oh well, i didn't get this one, but as consolation i guess there are more of 'em out there.
You have got that right. Actually, some of the fun is the hunt, if you know what you're doing. Next time, get a test drive. DrTax
Kephren, Read all the advice here!!! I followed it and am very happy I did. I spent 3-4 months learning about recalls, timing belts, majors, dealers, etc. Prices are coming down...take your time and learn..its more fun that way. I bought my 1999 550 in April from Ferrari of San Fran. $120k + $5 for major, upgrades, repairs. 10,000 miles NART Blue / tan No problems* Bill in San Diego
hehe, yea i agree, it is kinda cool trying to track one down. just like hunting, the harder won trophies are always more special than the easy ones. i've been contacting some of the dealers that turned up on google searches: dennig, algar, etc., but most of the cars they've got leads on have over 20k miles. i'd like to find one with half that. and so far my fav color is tdf blue. btw, i did get to drive the one here in pittsburgh, and that's what put me over the edge. now instead of just casually lusting over one i'm a lost cause and there's only one cure. i'll try to keep absorbing the wisdom of the posts here on ferrarichat.com while i try and keep my emotions in check. best, k
I have updated my database and here are my lastest numbers for Maranellos. What do you guys think? Dale Percent Year Retail Milage MSRP MSRP 2001 145,000 7,000 215,340 67% 2000 135,000 8,000 213,300 63% 1999 125,000 12,000 212,000 59% 1998 115,000 14,000 204,000 56% 1997 105,000 16,000 204,000 51% Average 125,000 11,400
Hi Dr. Tax: I think your prices are pretty close to wholesale. I think you can add fifteen to twenty thousand to represent retail prices that dealers are trying to get. Granted, there will be some variance due to mileage and how the car is optioned and condition, but still if you could buy the cars for your posted prices I would say you have gotten a good deal. I am still looking and have not found anything worth buying at your prices. I am looking for a 2000 or 2001 550. Red with Tan or saddle interior, shielded, and hopefully carbon fiber trim interior, mileage between 3K and 7K. Full history, no damage, perfect condition. If someons is selling this for 120 to 140K, I am interested. pm me. Good luck on the hunt. Gary
According to my database, here's what's currently out there on the Net: Percent Year Num Asking $ Disct Gettin $ MSRP 2001 18 160,670 10.0% 144,603 67% 2000 25 151,707 10.0% 136,536 64% This is whay I said $145k for a 2001 and $135K for a 2000. Pls let me know if these numbers don't seem right. Thx, Dale
BTW, here is a 2000 TDF/Tan, 6,000 miles, with a Buy-it-now price of $119k. Don't know the car or the seller, but they are out there. Dale http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6212&item=2483045942&rd=1
Hi Dale: Maybe I did not understand your original prices. What I see listed now in the Market letter and on the net Du Pont, I see 2001 550's for about 160-165K. That appears retail to me. I think wholesale would be about 140 to 145K. I think you have to find a private party who has been trying to sell at retail for awhile and has finally given up and now is ready to sell it at wholesale to a dealer. If you can find him at just the right time you can get a good car at a good price. I see 99's retailing for 145K. The dealers seem to be paying about 115 to 120 to resell them for that. Right now Shelton is selling two 99 550's with 12K miles and asking 147K for them. He usually has the cream of the crop and charges for it. To me that is high retail. Both are titanium w/ bordeaux. There seem to be a lot of them around. I never even look on E-bay. Maybe I am wrong, but I view anything on there as probably not being what they say it is or having a questionable history or documentation. When I see a price way out of line, I assume there is a reason why. Always good to read your posts. Take care Gary
you should definitely not cross off ebay. it's become quite a force in high-end car marketing. of course anything listed on ebay needs at least as much due diligence as stuff listed in more traditional places. but it's definitely worth looking there. doody.
Hi Doody: Ok. I will take your advice and add E-Bay to my search list. It seems that I have heard so much bad pr relating to misrepresented cars and scams that it did not seem worth the effort. The due diligence on previous owned Ferraris is bad enough without having to in addition whether you are getting involved with any really unethical sellers. But, as I said, I will start checking them out. By the way, if you hear of what I am alooking for, I would appreciate a heads up and a point in the right direction. Thanks gary
The one on ebay for 119K is a Euro model. I spoke to the guy and he was arrogant and not very informative. He told me the last time he posted the car that it would sell and was not willing to deal. I guess that didn't happen. Said it needed no service because of low miles. That is BS. Could be a good car. Make sure you check it out though. No bargin, because its a euro. This is not bad. Resale is just less. All the luck to you. Regards,
