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Goodbye, ILLinois

Discussion in 'Chicago' started by spike308, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Oct 21, 2011
    3,243
    Lake County, IL
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    Spiro
    What a bunch of self serving morons. Fortunately that sort of change to the tax system would require an amendment to the the state constitution.
     
  2. Sig. Roma

    Sig. Roma Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2007
    739
    Bella Italia
    Full Name:
    Dom T.
    Not sure if you have seen in the past few days that Toyota is consolidating its operations in Plano Texas. Tesla is looking at Texas, Nevada, Arizona and maybe one other state to set up its new battery plant (its a $500M investment), and Tesla is a California company (California, Illinois etc are in the same boat). If you get a chance, go to the "open the books" website. They will tell you what is going on not only in Illinois but in a number of places are the USA. Look at the North Carolina conference on corruption. And look at what they say about Illinois.

    Home Page | Open the Books
     
  3. alfas

    alfas Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2009
    630
    chicago
    Please tell us who isn't a self serving moron in this debate???

    Wisconsin has a higher tax rate for the upper bracket and they aren't scorned around here but to introduce the idea for Illinois and suddenly they are morons as you so eloquently stated.

    Seems consistency has little to no part in the debate.

    And how about a texas is a best state in the world to live in thread if one wants useless updates about what's going on in texas as opposed to in a Chicago/Illinois thread.
     
  4. JohnnyS

    JohnnyS F1 World Champ
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    Oct 19, 2006
    11,493
    Illinois
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    I think the issue is partially the concept of higher taxes, but it is also the complete lack of any control by the government to reel in spending. Illinois has 130 Billion debt just for the pensions. Wisconsin has about 45 Billion total debt. So, when someone in Illinois claims higher taxes will fix things, I just laugh.
     
  5. alfas

    alfas Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2009
    630
    chicago
    can't argue with that... fire all of them
     
  6. birvine

    birvine Rookie

    May 21, 2008
    31
    North Barrington, IL
    Full Name:
    Bret Irvine
  7. JohnnyS

    JohnnyS F1 World Champ
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    Oct 19, 2006
    11,493
    Illinois
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    John
  8. JohnnyS

    JohnnyS F1 World Champ
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    Oct 19, 2006
    11,493
    Illinois
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    John
    Let's be fair here. Illinois has many good features. If you go to the right areas, the city is great, lake front....good......education can be really good if you select where you live.
     
  9. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
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    Andreas
    I'm not a fan of Illinois but Chicago is in it and I consider this one of the best cities on the planet. There is only a small number of places in the US where I would feel equally comfy but none of those would be in Tx.
     
  10. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,458
    Portland, OR
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    Allan
    I worked and lived in metropolitan Chicago for the majority of my adult life. My wife grew up there and did her residency there. I had a great career there and was the unpaid CEO of Chicago Public Radio. Nevertheless, we were both glad to leave. Neither of us is sentimental about the place and would never move back there again.

    It is, however, a terrific place to visit; great culture, great music, museums, art and restaurants.
     
  11. alfas

    alfas Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2009
    630
    chicago
    Agreed completely. I have only two major cities I'd live in in the US, Boston & Chicago.
     
  12. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    For me it would only be LA, NY or Miami.
     
  13. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
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    Jul 26, 2004
    15,025
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    IgnoranteWest
    I've been here on business for three days and thought the areas Ive been to were great. Lake Bluff, Schaumberg. Beautiful despite the rain.
     
  14. Zinhead

    Zinhead Karting

    Feb 29, 2004
    184
    Chicago, USA
    According to Gallop. When were they ever wrong?


    Every state has at least some residents who are looking for greener pastures, but nowhere is the desire to move more prevalent than in Illinois and Connecticut. In both of these states, about half of residents say that if given the chance to move to a different state, they would like to do so. Maryland is a close third, at 47%. By contrast, in Montana, Hawaii, and Maine, just 23% say they would like to relocate. Nearly as few -- 24% -- feel this way in Oregon, New Hampshire, and Texas.

    Half in Illinois and Connecticut Want to Move Elsewhere
     
  15. boilerup1998

    boilerup1998 Rookie

    Apr 7, 2014
    32
    Indiana
    No, I'm in Indy.
     
  16. spike308

    spike308 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 8, 2003
    3,927
    Austin TX!
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    Mike Z
    Whoops!!
    That didn't take long!

    Illinois Barred from Cutting Health Insurance Subsidies for Retired Workers
    ARTICLE

    By JACOB GERSHMAN

    Illinois’s highest court on Thursday ruled that health insurance subsidies for retired state workers are shielded by the Illinois constitution, handing a victory to public-sector unions that challenged cuts put in place by lawmakers in 2012.

    The decision by the Illinois Supreme Court casts new doubts on the legal fate of the state’s recent pension overhaul in a state struggling to keep up with retiree payments, reports WSJ’s Mark Peters:

    The decision was being watched closely because labor leaders are challenging on similar grounds a larger overhaul of the retirement system passed last year.

    Illinois lawmakers last fall reduced future retirement costs by shrinking cost-of-living increases for retirees, raising retirement ages for younger employees and capping the size of pensions. The law aims to stabilize a retirement system that’s helped drive the state’s credit rating to the lowest among U.S. states.

    Labor unions challenged the pension system overhaul, saying the cuts also violated protections for retirement benefits in the state constitution.

    Here’s a link to the ruling, which was decided 6-1.
     
  17. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Dec 9, 2003
    11,745
    wisconsin/chicago
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    bo
    Yep, the only solution now is to double realestate taxes....

    That should go over swell.

    Plan to sell our last apartment building when a vacancy pops up...

    Bo
     
  18. spike308

    spike308 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 8, 2003
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    Well the "temporary" income tax increase will be "temporary" a lot longer!
     
  19. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,000
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross
    Of course it is temporary, just like the toll highways.
    Give these ****ers a dime and they spend a dollar. Until people here wise up and stop electing these idiots it will only get worse as each successive crook deepens the hole.
    I'm always saying how the people here are genuine with good values but it's clear we ain't too smart.
     
  20. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
    8,367
    illinois
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    mark k.
    They will keep electing them, Illinois has reached the critical mass already, more voters on the dole then the ones that still contribute to the economy.
     
  21. jjmalez

    jjmalez F1 Rookie
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    Apr 8, 2005
    4,056
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    While officials acknowledged the potential pitfalls of using a one-time accounting maneuver to cover a gaping deficit, Chicago’s Board of Education Wednesday unanimously approved a $5.8 billion operating budget and another $1 billion in spending on capital projects and debt payments.

    The budget for the 2014-15 fiscal year has been roundly criticized for the tactic of adding two months to the fiscal year to help cover an $862 million shortfall.


    CPS acknowledges budget issues, blames state funding, pensions - chicagotribune.com

    What's next, a "temporary" income tax increase?

    :(
     
  22. JohnnyS

    JohnnyS F1 World Champ
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    Oct 19, 2006
    11,493
    Illinois
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    John
    And many working are too stupid to understand the people they voted into office will continue to take their money to fix a problem that they think will reduce their taxes but only perpetuates the situation. (If we just keep sending people assistance, soon they will be back to work).
     
  23. spike308

    spike308 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 8, 2003
    3,927
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    Mike Z
    UPDATE:

    Well, its been a year and 2 weeks since departing....
    Man, I love it here in TX!
    Austin is an amazing town!
    Food, music, blue sky's, no winter, great people, no winter...

    My family is well, my kids transitioned very well, better than I thought, actually!

    built a pool, which is up and running and fantastic!

    was back in Chicago briefly 2 weeks ago...
    Chicago will always be a great place to visit!
    but, I'm here in Austin for the duration!

    Y'all come on down for a visit!
    Maybe you'll stay!
     
  24. spike308

    spike308 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 8, 2003
    3,927
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    This thread got dusted off recently in another thread... But big, unfortunate updates....

    Some of the numbers are stunning....
    The amount of (lack of) money... Retire at 60?!?!?

    Illinois Pension Blowup - WSJ

    OPINION REVIEW & OUTLOOK
    Illinois Pension Blowup
    State judges tell taxpayers to pay for political-union failure.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact—except maybe in Illinois. On Friday the Illinois Supreme Court struck down modest pension reforms as a violation of the state constitution in a decision that tees up state taxpayers for years of tax increases.

    The court ruled unanimously that pensions are inviolable under the plain text of the state constitution, which holds that “Membership in any pension or retirement system of the State, any unit of local government or school district, or any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which shall not be diminished or impaired.”

    The law isn’t that simple, and the practical damage will be great. State pensions are underfunded by $111 billion—a 500% increase from 1995 and up 75% in the past five years. About one in four state tax dollars already finances pensions, which is more than Illinois spends on education. Yet the court accuses politicians of shortchanging pensions.

    Politicians are to blame for the state’s fiscal woes, but mainly because they colluded with unions to promise unsustainable benefits in return for political support. Less than 40% of the increase in the state’s unfunded liability since 1995 is due to inadequate payments. The rest is due mainly to benefit growth and faulty actuarial assumptions such as investment rate of return.

    The 2013 reforms at issue capped salaries of current workers that are used to calculate pensions at $110,600 (with a carve-out for collectively bargained increases) and raised the retirement age for workers in their 20s to the ripe, old age of 60. Compounded 3% annual cost-of-living increases were also tweaked for younger workers, a modification that courts in nearly every other state have upheld.

    In toto, the changes were projected to shave a mere $20 billion off Illinois unfunded liability. Pension payments would still constitute nearly 20% of the state budget.

    This is legally relevant because the U.S. Supreme Court in 1934 ruled that states can invoke their police powers to impair contracts in an emergency. The High Court has since established a balancing test that requires judges to consider whether state contractual impairments are substantial, serve an important public purpose and can be achieved through less drastic means.

    Yet the Illinois court blows right through this judicial standard. Based on its prior rulings, the court opines that “neither the legislature nor any executive or judicial officer may disregard the provisions of the constitution even in case of a great emergency” or “for economic reasons.”

    If pensions can be modified, the court opines, then “no rights or property would be safe from the State. Today it is nullification of the right to retirement benefits. Tomorrow it could be renunciation of the duty to repay State obligations. Eventually, investment capital could be seized.” This irony of this slippery-slope fallacy is that by shielding pensions the Illinois judges are making it more likely that the state will renege on debt or other obligations.

    The justices cavil that politicians “made no effort to distribute the burdens evenly among Illinoisans” and could “have sought additional tax revenue.” Yet Illinois raised taxes by a record amount in 2011. The judges even suggest that it is unconstitutional to require government workers, rather than taxpayers, to shoulder the pension burden.

    All of this means that Illinois and its municipalities may soon have little choice but to raise taxes or restructure debts to pay for pensions. Chicago, whose credit rating is two notches above junk, faces a $20 billion unfunded liability for pensions and $1.1 billion balloon payment next year. Unions (and perhaps investors) were counting on a state bailout, but now they will probably beg Washington for a rescue.

    Republican Governor Bruce Rauner has floated an alternative: a state constitutional amendment allowing pension modifications, which would require a public referendum and two-thirds vote of the legislature. Barring that, Illinois taxpayers may want to start contemplating Indiana or Florida residency.
     
  25. norbert

    norbert Formula Junior

    Jun 22, 2003
    375
    Everyone has their own experiences living in this state. I was told many years ago two things by a friend:

    If you don't understand what the big picture is, take two steps back. If still unclear, take two more back. Keep doing this until you understand what the big picture really is before making any intelligent decisions. The second point told me was too many people make a decision before a decision really needs to be made. When the time really comes when a decision has to be made, the decision will be obvious given all the inputs one has at that time. I have told these two things to many people all over the world. These two decision making points have helped me very much over the years.

    Concerning leaving this state, Carol and I have been looking around several parts of the country for a couple of years now. We just returned from an 8 day scouting trip southeast on Thursday. Last year the trip was out West. Little by little, the big picture will be clear as all the inputs are gathered, and the decision where to move will just rise to the top of the list based on its merits from our "check list".

    We gathered all the information that was needed to make the decision to leave this state before the looking began, and yes that decision to leave became obvious some time ago. Many of the reasons (inputs) for leaving have been mentioned and pointed out in this thread. We feel the negatives far outweigh the positives for continuing to live in this state from our perspective and wishes in life.....and yes Mike, Austin is still on our list.

    Norbert
     

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