First part... "Not my fault we are crooks.... It's the way it is,," Second part..... Ummmmm, sure Rahm..... As a lib, you won't spend money that you have access to? Sure..... Detroit........
Glad to see that you have the tenacity to escape an oppressive city and state. Best wishes to you on you move. Life is better when you take action!
That's a terrible sum for prop taxes. I see South Chicago as being similar to Detroit in a way. People in Detroit who still actually live in Detroit are at this point just too dumb and stubborn to ever leave, yet they refuse to do anything themselves to make where they live a better place. If they leave they will have to work their way to wherever they're going and that's just not an option those people will ever accept. People who fundamentally do not want to work will do anything to not work, even if that means destroying the city in which they reside.
The taxes are out of control... I bought a 4 unit foreclosure for $125,000. The taxes were $15,750 per year!!!! It tooks over 1-2 years to bring them down. Now, they are "only" $8000 on a property assessed at $220,000... Bo
simply too poor to leave. Can't afford to. Sad. People vote with their feet in an enlightened society. Below article from 2-10-2014 brought to my attention. No commentary necessary. Baltimore City, You?re Breaking My Heart: This is why people leave - Baltimore Post-Examiner Life takes you places, you follow a course that isn’t completely of your own making. One day you wake up, and it’s really all up to you. So where do you want to live? I happen to live in a city. Baltimore, to be specific. And I’m growing to absolutely hate it here. I’m tired of hearing about 12 year old girls being held up at gun-point while they walk to school. I’m tired of saying “Oh Baltimore’s great! It’s just got some crime problems.” I’m tired of living in a major crime zone while paying the highest property taxes in the state. I’m tired of hearing about incompetent city leaders who are more fixated on hosting the Grand Prix than dealing with thousands of vacant buildings that create massive slums, and rampant crime. I’m tired of being looked at like prey. I’m tired of hearing the police helicopter circling overhead every night, and seeing the spotlight shine in my window. I’m tired of reading about juveniles arrested for violent crimes who are let go because if it’s not a “murder” case, there’s no time to worry about it, or resources to deal with it. I’m tired of checking in on neighbor and Baltimore Sun editor Jon Fogg’s Go Fund Me page to see if his family has met their goal to raise funds to help him recover from the brutal attack he suffered as he went from his car to his front door after work. I’m tired of hearing city leaders delude themselves that people will move to, or visit, Baltimore — with visions of the Inner Harbor and the National Aquarium in their minds. I’m tired of being surrounded by drug addicts. I’m tired of answering the question, “Is Baltimore really like The Wire?” Answer: “Yeah it’s a complete ****-hole war zone depending on what street you turn down”. I’m tired of looking at 11 year olds as potential thieves, muggers and murderers on my walk home from the office. I’m tired of living next to a beautiful park that I’m scared to walk into at any time of day, thanks to regular stories of day-time muggings, drug dealing and gang violence. I’m tired of doing the mental checklist of what I will do if I hear someone break into my house. I’m tired of watching the murder count go up and up like a lottery pool. Baltimore Homicides - baltimoresun.com I’m tired of thinking about neighbor Zach Sowers, beat to death by a pack of kids outside his Canton home several years ago, completely unprovoked. I’m tired of thinking about the horrifying final moments for 51-year-old neighbor, Kim Leto, stabbed to death in her own home by two teenagers. I’m tired of hearing people talk about how coveted the internships are at Johns Hopkins because you get “battle zone” experience. I’m tired of wondering why city leaders haven’t said **** about recent horrific murders committed in what I used to consider “safe” neighborhoods. City officials ignore the fact that neighborhoods like Canton and Butcher’s Hill (supposedly appealing neighborhoods for young professionals, students and families seeking an urban living experience) have seen robberies up 35 percent and violent crime up 30 percent. I’m tired. I don’t have to live here. But I want to stay. I want to love this city again. I want it to get the crime monkey off its back and become the amazing place and home I know it can be. I’m very fond of my neighbors. The people who live on my street are amazing and I consider many of them good friends. They look after my house, and I look out for them. They host block parties, offer to help each other out, and are generally awesome folks, many of them raising families amidst this increasing insanity. Patterson Park, a half-block from my front door, is one of the most beautiful city parks in the country, and was the key defensive position for U.S. forces against British ground forces in the Battle of Baltimore during the War of 1812. I love walking outside on a sunny afternoon and seeing the joggers, dog walkers, families, and the overall sense of diversity that I get living in the city. Baltimore has a rich history and every building tells a story, every neighborhood has character, and as a city, it has so much to offer. On one hand there is more to do here than I could ever hope to experience, on the other hand most of the places I walk into, I bump into someone I know. People jokingly call it “Smalltimore”, and it’s a huge part of its appeal. Some of the best and most memorable restaurants in the country are within walking distance to my house, and I consider the owners friends. Jack’s Bistro Peter’s Inn  Woodberry Kitchen — (will be within walking distance to our new office) Some of the brightest minds come to this city every day to work at Johns Hopkins, curate at The Walters Art Museum, run businesses like Under Armour and Millennial Media, or provide unique services like the Water Taxi, which will take you from the historic streets of Fells Point to The Visionary Museum in Federal Hill. Baltimore City has beautiful areas to explore, amazing diversity, unique experiences and generally really nice and friendly citizens. There are bars like The Horse you Came in On, the oldest continually operating saloon in America, and Edgar Allan Poe’s last known destination before he died. You’ll never have a shortage of fun and interesting places to take visitors who come to stay, just warn them not to leave anything in their car, use their iPhone while in a public area, or walk alone after dark. And make SURE they know how to set your alarm when they leave your house. And let them borrow your pit-bull if they want to roam around a little and explore the neighborhood. For me, there are so many great things about this city, more than I can list here. They’ve made me proud to call Baltimore my home since 1996, when I moved here to go to graduate school at the Maryland Institute College of Art, one of the best art schools in the country. But you just can’t ignore the crime. It’s the elephant in the room for Baltimore City, and city officials don’t seem like they are ever going to look it square in the eye. With that kind of attitude being represented by your city’s leaders, it’s no wonder the city’s population continues to decline. (Note — last year the city saw a slight population increase after years of decline — we want to see this continue, but I’m worried it won’t if we don’t get a handle on crime throughout the city.) I’m looking at you Mayor Rawlings-Blake. I don’t know how to fix Baltimore’s crime problem, but in my opinion, I do my part. I pay my taxes, I run a business where I employ other citizens of Baltimore, and my business provides a service to other Baltimore businesses and people. I report suspicious activity, I come to help when someone yells “Help”, I try to keep my home looking nice, and I leave my outside lights turned on at night. All I know is when there are more police, there is less crime. When people get arrested for littering or loitering or being publicly intoxicated, they go do that **** somewhere else, or they think twice about doing it at all. And yes, I realize this may be a knee-jerk reaction and won’t solve all the problems. But I’m desperate for some kind of help. I want to feel safe. If you ignore the little things, you encourage worse things to happen. Life is a fast ride that gets faster the longer you are on it. This world is full of amazing places, amazing people, and more choices than one can even conceive. How do you decide where to make your home? For the first half of my life, it’s pretty much been outside factors that have impacted where I live. I intend to make the second half a much more deliberate and personal process. I’m going to start with asking myself what I like and what I don’t like. And then I’m going to find my home where most of the check marks fall in the “like” column. Being afraid you will be robbed, attacked or murdered where you live will be in the “Don’t Like” list, but it really shouldn’t be in a list at all. Afterword — Yes, I’m white, and so are lots of my neighbors. I also have Hispanic neighbors, African American neighbors, gay neighbors (hand raised), old crotchety neighbors, neighbors with kids, neighbors from countries I’ve never heard of. It’s one of the things I love about this city. But I’m not going to shut up and tell myself I have no right to be upset, when people are killed and beaten and threatened all around me. I can’t speak to what it’s like in other neighborhoods, in other cities — I’m not there. I’m here. And I hope I can stay and look forward to things getting better — for everyone. Editor’s Note: This Op-Ed first appeared on Medium.com. It is republished here with permission from the author. - See more at: Baltimore City, You?re Breaking My Heart: This is why people leave - Baltimore Post-Examiner
Yet you bought a foreclosure knowing that going in and come here to ***** about it. 4 families can live in your building and use city services based on that address. Where's the money supposed to come from for those 4 families using schools, programs, libraries, police/fire??? My taxes should go up to help your building to pencil out? REALLY? My taxes are for my family actually living in the city aren't there to subsidize your foreclosure property as much as that seems to be what you and others expect. If you can't make your numbers work enough to make you happy GTFO. And for the record I'm in Ukrainian Village and pay $1200/100k and don't think that's unreasonable relative to friends in the burbs that are paying many multiples of that. I love the whining here about what's fair/unfair... No where is perfect, Illinois corrupt, sure, so is everywhere else...
what a surprise... & WTH are "gay neighbors (hand raised)"??? what was the point of that specific addition to that list of people that sound very much like my neighborhood right down to the gay neighbors to the direct north of us that are all but family at this point. Should I inquire with them the difference between "hand raised" and what, not hand raised gay neighbors?
You are coming across like a fool.... Just thought I would let you know. Its widely recognized that Illinois, has one of the highest taxes in the USA. Per the Trib's article last weekend, it has the SECOND highest taxes in the nation. Who said anything about your taxes going up? Taxes are assessed based on property value. Its doesn't matter if 1 liliputian lives there, of a family of 400. I don't understand your misdirected point? You pay $1200 PER $100,000? Sounds like you are underpaying my freind. You may want to let the tax assesor know, as your numbers are way off. Your experience and taxes are very different from everyone elses. You may want to call the tax assesor and let them know... so they can fix it. Per Cook County taxes are usually 4%+ of actual value. You are paying 1.2%.
Property tax rates in Cook County are artificially high due to the multiplier(thank you down staters). However, property taxes in Chicago proper are artificially lower than the rest of Cook County due to using a much lower tax rate for funding schools. As a result, Chicago municipal taxes are about 1/3 of the North Shore. In regards to rental property and taxes, both of you make valid points. If you have more people using municipal services you need more revenue. Likewise, the current tax system is not based on useso all that matters to the tax man is the property value.
Nah... not a fool, but thanks for that feeble "insight". I didn't debate that point in the least or even address it in any regard. I was more sensing the irony of your situation which is what I enjoy doing. You want to call fools I'd argue you bought a foreclosure(property at a reduced rate already) based on information you had at the time including the tax burden. You sign the deal knowingly and then expect the city/county to "correct" the taxes after the fact that you full well knew about going in and come here to whine about it. So as a result of your signature the city now has a property that was once generating a tax base of $15k is now generating a tax base of $8k despite being able to house four families that should rightfully pay a share of the county tax burden as residents(i.e. as part of their rent to you the LL). Rightfully your taxes as a percentage should be higher than my single family. I'm paying my share for wife, daughter and me on our property in the city... Due to your deft dealings who is to pay for that loss of $7+k coming to the city and the services it provides since your property will be occupied by four families that will use said city services and pay for the equity YOU are building. I didn't mention anything regarding my taxes going up. I was illustrating a point most fail to realize in these debates. I'm not here to subsidize YOUR investment which is what you are expecting by having your taxes reduced substantially. If the taxes that building was generating are not being paid anymore by you the difference is going to have to come from somewhere, that means me and the rest. That seems more than a bit unfair. Maybe I'm smart as opposed to a "fool" given I knew my taxes when we bought/signed the papers and were comfortable with them and didn't rely on after the fact arguments to correct them. I should have been clearer, that figure was based on when we bought in 2006, Our yearly tax amount has stayed steady +/- I think $400 at the most in a given year despite losing assessed value during the recent downturn. So in actuality we are paying more than 1.2%. All that said I'd move the hell out if I was looking at a tax bill of $3500/100k, That's simply silly as nowhere is worth that...
Taxes in the city of Cicero, suburb of Chicago, in cook county, are $8000 on a $200,000 building. Doesn't matter if its a bungalow, a 2 unit, or a 4 unit. That's 4% of value. So, we as the residents of Cicero are subsidizing you, based on your numbers. It's ridiculous. You have somehow latched onto the fact it's a 4 unit. It doesn't matter. Taxes on homes are the same. The water bill is 400$ every 2 months. That's the minimum the city charges, if you use 1 drop of water. That's 2400$ per year... For water. In wisconsin, the bill on a 4 unit is 120$ every 3 months. And yes, I got the hell out of Illinois. As did my friends, and the original poster, and many large corporations... Enjoy what's left.
Don't flatter yourself as subsidizing me... I pay my share that's asked of me thank you. You might want to read up on Cook County Property taxes as as usual things aren't as simple as you present at a strict across the board 4%... especially when you are talking about an investment property. Treating my single family and your 4 flat the same in terms of absolute tax rate is more than a bit silly if one actually rubs two brain cells together to think about it. What's fair about my property and your property being taxed at the same rate, exactly nothing. If you and I are paying the same rate based on assessed value I'm subsiding your investment property with my primary residence taxes all day long and twice on Sunday. Like I said how does that make ANY sense? Cook County Illinois Property Taxes - 2014 First sentence; "The median property tax in Cook County, Illinois is $3,681 per year for a home worth the median value of $265,800. Cook County collects, on average, 1.38% of a property's assessed fair market value as property tax. " and yes the site admits to having some of the highest taxes in the country which was never at debate in this exchange. But your building isn't in Wis. first of all so that point is largely moot. And to add to that I pay $200/2mos so that half of what you pay for a 4 unit building with potentially 4 families living in it as opposed to my single family. Who's subsidizing who here... Yet you still have an investment here as an absentee LL and expect some kind of special dispensation because you had an opportunity to buy a property below market realizing a fairly quick profit($95k from just what's been offered) from the get go and on top of that get a tax reduction of $7k/yr on a deal you knowingly signed on the dotted line with a larger tax burden and still come here to whine about it in a public forum how the system sucks. To add insult to injury you have no interest in what happens in Chicago anymore(save your bottom line of course),look at me I left, enjoy what's left, blah, blah, blah. Yes, let me tune the tiniest strings on the tiniest violin I've got around here somewhere... $8k yearly on a four unit building as far as I'm concerned is more than a bit light on a per family basis for living in the city or county so that should make you feel good... It's a broken system, hence the problems...
alfas : NICE cherry pick for you to mis-quote and go off on. My post in post #182 was clearly attributed. Believe whatever you want to be true, pal.
Wow, I had an old boss who lived in Chicago. His standard of living was much higher than us here in NYC on the same income. Want to complain about property taxes move to Long Island, Westchester County, NY. How does $35,000 sound on a $1,000,000 home. Housing, country clubs, insurance and parking your car in the city are much less in Chicago vs NYC and many other US cities. Property taxes are only one portion of a person's living expenses. Anyway hope the person who moved enjoys his new life. I have a place in FL and I am not sure I could live there year round, it's very hot in the summer and really no change of seasons.
I love Chicago; great music, food and the folks aren't bad either. But, I'm preaching to part of the choir.
where's the mis-quote? you posted the article which is what I was reacting to as people who have followed the thread can clearly see, not you per se so lighten up Francis... It's not really a surprise the author is white and I really have no idea WTH they meant by "hand raised" gay people and still don't.
Agreed, we're spoiled my wife's parents live in the upper west side of NYC and my family is in Carmel, Ca.. We live in a great city in the middle and nobodies family gets to argue about us being closer to one than another, it works out quite nicely, only thing left to grab is a weekend place in Wisconsin or Michigan. You talk about corrupt Illinois, I'd not like in California again on a bet either as they are just as broken as anywhere else. No where is perfect, you pick you battles and trudge blindly on making the best decisions you can at the time.
After a little time to think about your reply I'd argue you're the one who seems to "believe whatever you want to be true", how pretentious of you with your comments which I will deliberately be cherry picking while not mis-quoting; Why would one assume the author of the article to be what you say?
Fight the power, Bo! What's the Matter With Illinois? - WSJ.com What's the Matter With Illinois? The Great Lakes region offers a test of different economic policies. April 14, 2014 7:14 p.m. ET If the states are laboratories of democracy, then a great comparative policy experiment is taking place in America's Great Lakes region. Democrats in Illinois have been pursuing their blue-state model of higher taxes and union-dominated government. Neighboring states since 2010 have gone for lower taxes and union reform. The comparison is especially apt because Illinois Democrats are doubling down on their strategy in this election year. Governor Pat Quinn has announced plans to make permanent the "temporary" tax hikes that were supposed to sunset at the end of this year. Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan last month floated a 3% surcharge on income over $1 million, only to have it shot down by some in his own caucus. Yet Democrats are still flogging a progressive income tax, which Mr. Quinn all but endorsed last year. All of which makes it an ideal moment to consider how the Quinn-Madigan policies are working. One way to judge is to compare Illinois with four other Great Lakes states that the federal Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) lumps together for its annual survey of economic performance by the 50 states. Start with Illinois's 8.7% jobless rate, which is the country's second highest after Rhode Island's 9% and has fallen by a mere 0.7 percentage points since Mr. Quinn began his second term in January 2011. That's when Illinois increased its flat income tax to 5% from 3% and the corporate rate to 9.5% from 7.3%. The nearby chart shows the jobless-rate trend in five Great Lakes states since 2010. Note the sharp decline in Michigan, where Republican Governor Rick Snyder and a GOP legislature cut corporate taxes. In the last three years, the rate has fallen to 7.7% from 11% in the Wolverine State, to 6.5% from 9.1% in Ohio, to 6.1% from 9% in Indiana, and to 6.1% from 7.7% in Wisconsin. Only Illinois has raised taxes, while Ohio cut taxes, Michigan and Indiana have passed right-to-work laws and Wisconsin famously reformed collective bargaining. Illinois has also recorded the slowest personal income growth in the Great Lakes. Between 2012 and 2013, personal income rose by 2.1% in Illinois versus 2.7% in Wisconsin, 2.5% in Michigan, and 2.3% in Ohio and Indiana. But get thisabout a third of Illinois's personal-income growth last year was driven by "transfer receipts" (i.e., food stamps, workers' compensation, disability, welfare, Medicaid, Social Security, Medicare, earned income tax credits, unemployment benefits). According to BEA, these payments increased 5.2% in Illinois in 2013, the third most in the U.S., while wages and salaries ticked up only 1%. Some 31,000 Illinois workers left the state's labor force in 2013, while Michigan's workforce expanded by 2,000 and Indiana's grew by 11,000. Illinois also lost about 9,000 manufacturing jobs in the last year while Michigan gained 17,000 and Ohio and Indiana each added 12,000. Enlarge Image Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn Associated Press AM Manufacturing and Carl Buddig & Co. recently announced plans to move operations a few hundred yards across the Illinois border to Munster, Indiana. Kenall Manufacturing, Hanna Cylinders and EMCO Chemical are relocating to Wisconsin. It's easy to see why. Illinois's 9.5% corporate tax rate is the highest in the Great Lakes and fourth in the U.S. Michigan levies a 6% corporate tax, and Indiana Governor Mike Pence recently signed legislation to cut his state's corporate rate to 4.9% from 7.5% by 2023. Nine years is an overlong phase-in, but at least businesses know taxes are trending down. Democrats say Illinois taxes aren't all that high and have room to grow. The state's 5% flat personal income tax is lower than the top rates in Ohio (5.392% on income over $208,500) and Wisconsin (7.65% over $240,190), but higher than the flat rates in Michigan (4.25%) and Indiana (3.4%). However, sales taxes are 14% to 33% higher in Illinois than in other Great Lakes states, according to the Tax Foundation. Property taxes are the second highest in the country (after New Jersey) and climbing. Democrats want to impose a progressive income tax because they don't want to extend their "temporary" tax hikes on their low and middle income constituents. They'd try to sell a progressive tax to voters as a tax cut for the middle class, even though legislators could later ratchet up rates on everyone when they want more revenue, which they always do. Public unions have proposed top tax rates starting between 9% to 11%. The real reason Democrats want higher taxes is the state's exploding government-employee pension costs, which will increase this year despite the nips and tucks legislators made in December. Illinois this year will spend $7 billion from its general fund (not counting federal funds) on primary and secondary educationbut another $7.5 billion on pensions. According to the Illinois Policy Institute, teacher pensions have gobbled up 70% of new education spending. The next tax increase would be, like the last one, a more or a less a straight income transfer to government worker pensions. Democrats in Springfield are also teeing up a bailout for Chicago's pension funds, which are $30 billion in arrears. The city must make a $1.07 billion balloon payment next year while Chicago schools must cough up an additional $405 million this year. Taxes and public union governance aren't the only policy differences in these states, but they have been the most notable since 2010. Judging by the record so far, nothing would make the four Republican Governors of neighboring states happier than for Illinois to keep soaking its millionaires.
