Gordon Murray's T50 | Page 9 | FerrariChat

Gordon Murray's T50

Discussion in 'British' started by Igor Ound, Jun 5, 2019.

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  1. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
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    Not at Porsche. Not at BMW. Not at Astin Martin. Not at Mazda. And not at Gordon Murray Automotive.
    .
     
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  2. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Dead at Ferrari. Regarding Murray he initially wanted to go with a sequential which would have made a lot more sense imo.
     
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  3. MarkNC

    MarkNC Formula Junior
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    May 22, 2012
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    The T.50 engine will be compliant with emission regulations. Ferrari's NA V12 engine, which has >50% more displacement than the T.50 engine, complies with emission regulations. Hybridization isn't a requirement to pass emissions compliance.

    The press kit, available on the Gordon Murray Automotive web site along with video interviews Gordon conducted, provide a fascinating overview of the technology in this car. That manual transmission is a brand new, state of the art, lightweight unit designed by Xtrac who are a leading manufacturer of racing transmissions. It's not some off-the-shelf old design gearbox. It should provide for some pretty fast and enjoyable gear changes. The new fan system is a state-of-the-art 48V system that has modes to enhances downforce, breaking, acceleration, and drag reduction when desired. It has a modern 48V electric HVAC system. It has brand new LED lighting. It has a digital dash with Bluetooth/CarPlay/Android Auto/backup camera, a top-end audio system and digital mirrors. It uses state-of-the-art carbon fiber techniques (far superior to what the F1 used) and it is incredibly lightweight while still having 228L of luggage space. It has ABS, electronic stability control, traction control and airbags so it will be significantly safer than the F1. Like the F1 it's also a pretty small car overall - the packaging of this vehicle is just brilliant.

    I think the T.50 pretty much answers the call as the true contemporary success to the McLaren F1.

    I get that if you're building a platform for the future then hybrid or electric powertrains might be something to consider. But, like the F1 before it, this isn't a platform. It's a stand-alone road car based on stunning engineering achievement designed around maximum driver enjoyment with nod to practicality. I'm totally smitten with this car. It's definitely worth watching the video interviews Gordon did around the launch of the T.50 to get insights into its design process.
     
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  4. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    coolest thing about the t.50 is the engineering is done to the limit right now as this is a one and done car in comparison to a production car that has to allow for incrermental future improvements.
     
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  5. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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    If I ever had the typing skills to type all this, this is what I would type. But I don't. :p Well written. Pretty much says it all. :)

    Igor responds to completely dismiss everything you wrote in 3, 2, .......... :confused:
    .
     
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  6. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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    #206 BJK, Aug 16, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
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  7. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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    Fingers crossed for 'track only' version. :)
    .
     
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  8. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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  9. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    I´ve already said it before: the F1 was not about "pureness" but about offering the latest stuff available, no matter the cost. The T.50, as Murray admitted, is not about that, but about the pure experience, blah, blah. Actually they´ve made the car innecesarily complex and expensive, adding stuff like the fans to avoid putting a splitter just because Murray didn´t like the looks of it, or the 48V system to keep the engine bay neat. So even the "pureness" thing is also debateable.

    My point is that an hybrid, semi-auto car can be interesting, just like a splitter can look good. I think it´s great that there are different flavors, but I don´t think that Morgans, Caterhams or T.50s should be the future of automobile. It´s like the Monza SP: they´re cool and that, but they´re just a rarity for collectors.
     
  10. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    i believe one of the youtube interviews he said there will be one. like f1lm was.
     
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  11. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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    Yes, but first things first. John Delorean and many others have had big plans and ...... :eek: No real comparison, but, until buyers (with huge down payments) get their cars delivered, some will be anxiously holding their breaths.
    But not really. Anyone who's got $2 mil or so just for down payments on a car that doesn't yet exist, isn't going hungry. As they say, "I'll believe it, when I see it." :)
    .
     
  12. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    Last time Ferrari offered a manual, no one really cared. I know I don't. In a 300 HP Cayman a manual might have some credence. A hypercar with a manual though? What's next? A fighter plane with propellers instead of jet engines?
     
  13. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    According to Pierro (Enzo's son), the great Mr Ferrari was all about performance. Why would you think that he would care for the anachronistic manual transmission?
     
  14. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    come on now, fighter planes and race cars are tools to do a job. hypercars are for fun and that means na v12 and stick shift. only issue for t.50 is that it could have been styled by either nissan or acura.
     
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  15. MarkNC

    MarkNC Formula Junior
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    Because they offered it in a GT car that wasn't really designed for enthusiasts. They never offered it in the 458. 430 Spiders with manual transmissions are going for way more money than the F1 transmission versions or even some 458s now.

    Nonsense. I have 502HP naturally-aspirated Porsche Speedster and it's plenty fun to drive. Would it go faster with a PDK? Sure but who cares. It's more fun to drive with the manual. Plus it has rev matching (with T.50 will have as well) you can shift if pretty darn fast. What it doesn't have is lightness (it weighs 1,000 pounds more than the T.50 will weigh) and a mid-engined layout. The T.50 will be incredibly fun to drive.

    I'm not saying Ferrari should go back to making cars with manual transmissions, they have a great DCT and they make great cars. But that doesn't mean the T.50 is compromised by having one either. Like the manual transmission Speedster, It's the car their customers wanted. There's nothing with delivering what your customers want. They don't intend to sell thousands of them. They're only making 100 of them in the first place.
     
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  16. MarkNC

    MarkNC Formula Junior
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    You need to watch some of Gordon's interviews because you're missing the plot. The ethos of the two cars is the same. It was about making the best drivers car they could make with the technology available at the time. Even with that goal, there were some compromises made on the F1 (lighting, AC, cargo configuration, cabin layout) that he's able to fix on the T.50 because better technology is available. Nobody, that I'm aware of, has shipped an engine in a road car that revs to 12,100 rpm and gains revs anywhere near as quickly as the one in the T.50 so that definitely ticks your "latest stuff" box if you ask me. Hybridization isn't the "latest stuff", people have been doing that for years now, Same with fancy aero wings and ducts, they're old hat. Now, having said that, of course there will be cars that move the state of the art forward using those things. But every car is snapshot in time and this one is incredibly cool for the things it doesn't need (to offset weight it doesn't have) as much as it is for the things it does have. It's OK to be different.

    Computers used to have hard drives with multiple spinning magnetic discs that were prone to failure and had very delicate moving parts. They've now been replaced by way faster memory chips with no moving parts and that made them faster, more reliable, more portable, smaller and lighter. Running things off belts introduces complexity, multiple additional points of failure and additional packaging challenges. Also splitters aren't a perfect solution either. To make them work the car has to be lower to the ground than is ideal so you end up adding weight and complexity to lift the car when you need to go over a speed bump or road hazard and more complicated suspensions. With the fan the T.50 can still use the airflow under the car for downforce without resorting to lowering it and hanging stuff off the front or making it longer in the back. Seems pretty elegant to me.

    I agree with you! The T.50 is a rarity for collectors but it is also a technical wonder. It isn't correct to lump it in with Morgans and Caterhams.
     
  17. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    Who decreed that? Why not manual engine timing, for that matter? Have you driven one of those 1920s Fords? What a headache?! I guess some people just want to occupy themselves with unnecessary hustles all of the time...


    Just because of their rarity. They drive badly compared to their semi-autos siblings. A rubbish (technologically speaking) 250 GTO costs 10-15 times more than a state-of-the-art LaFerrari. That is akin to a Spitfire costing 10-15 times what a Eurofighter costs. Laughable!!!


    On which scale? You may like it more, I don't. Technically, a manual is inferior, whichever way you cut it. Some people might like it more, but that 's like saying that some people prefer porridge over beef stroganoff... Simpletons, or Luddites, take your pick...


    PS: I just re-read my post. It might appear as offensive, but that wasn't my intention. It transpires my thoughts, even though somewhat gravelly so.
     
  18. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    I´ve seen some Murray´s interview and I think I´ve not lost the plot entirely. Hybrid stuff and spoilers are old, yes, but not more than NA V12s and fans on the floor. 12,000 rpm is not a novelty either: it´s an improvement on what´s already been done with the tech available now. The Aston Martin Valkyrie revs at 11.000 (with way higher displacement) AND is hybrid: both things can go together.


    If we´re going to talk about practicality, reliability, etc... then a V12 revving at 12,000 rpm is not the ideal solution either. Putting spoilers, splitters and some active aero is also easier and more effective than the fan thing. Murray acknowledged it: he did it just for the looks. Nothing wrong with that, they made it that way because they wanted. But I have no problem with a good looking spoiler either, and I think most manufacturers should look for technical proficiency: that´s the way things can move on.

    If Caterham could sell their cars at 2M, they´d do technology wonders too. But that´s not their point, they don´t need that, and I´m not comparing the T.50 to them in derogatory terms, both are great at what they are (and terribly overpriced too).
     
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  19. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    This car sucks in more than one way ;)
     
  20. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

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    i'm suprised at how many people here dislike manual gearboxes in their sports cars tbh

    I personally love them and think it adds to the experience

    in my daily driver I prefer an auto but when having fun prefer a manual
     
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  21. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    ive had stick for 40 yrs and im 60 yrs old but am really over it. i drive my sports cars to and from track in traffic makes stick very uncomfortable for me. but if buying a hypercar that is obviously never going to see traffic, stick is way to go.
     
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  22. MarkNC

    MarkNC Formula Junior
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    Sorry I might have done a bad job explaining there. My point was the ingredients in the car are new. I didn't mean to imply that nobody has done a high-revving engine before just that this engine is a new engine.
     
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  23. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    I wouldn´t say they´re new: they´re more expensive! So they can optimize everything.
     
  24. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    Can’t help but thinking he went with manual because it’s cheaper
     

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