I was idly thinking. In today’s world where there are no bad cars, but also still only a few great cars, what American car would anyone anywhere want to buy. Ford Raptor and f150 I. General is at the top of the list. No one else makes anything like it and it’s also well engineered. I see lots of grand Cherokee and wrangler In Europe and Africa, so they seem to have a special spot no one else covers. The mustang gt is apparently very popular all over the world. We seem thin to have made some special Niche, but besides that nearly everyone even at home prefers a foreign product. Other than for patriotic or price reasons would anyone choose a caddy ats over a bmw or Mercedes. Seems to me the issue is not one of talent or ability more like one of comceptualization, management and will/budget. I’ll also add that we dominate I trucks not least because our roads and road conditions encourage that type of vehicle in a way Impossible elsewhere. Or put another way, crap roads even carpet drivers means the odds of a great domestic sedan being required are minimal. The German autobahn means even without intent Germans end up engineering Great cars and motors. Hard to say but why can’t we do it. Why is there no Chevy Buick or Cadillac like an Audi rs3 or ra4, instead we got thebinsipit ats?
US companies are making too much money making trucks and SUVs to make anything else. Plus, our roads are so bad, you need to drive a truck or SUV. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Give me a break. Those of us wanting a proper sport sedan will do very well with a Cadillac V spec ATS of CTS. Even the base ATS has a better chassis, steering and brake feel than the comparable BMW. You may complain the tha interior isn't as "good" as your Audi, but the reality is that it works well. Our ATS has been flawless and the required services painless at our local dealer. We have run down sportscars in the canyons with it and it returns great economy as well. We gave up a long history of BMWs and couldn't be happier. The Camaro is described by every enthusiast mag as a true sports car and it too is a blast on track. Obviously the Corvette is the real deal. Specialized musclecars like the various versions of the Challenger are also popular with their owners and make great road trip cars with lots of room and endless, effortless power. GM builds some of the best hybrids and EVs on the planet and the list goes on. Have a clue.
I really like our ATS. It's the 3.6 AWD, and with 330 hp, has more than enough power. Handles very well, too. It's not an inexpensive car, but more affordable than its ubiquitous euro counterparts. I would love to have an ATS-V and hope to maybe pick up a nice used one eventually.
My street is only marginally better than a cow path, so AWD is a must as our DD and winter car. I was seriously considering trading in my Stingray when the ATS V's came out. There's a real appeal to a "sleeper" that you can't enjoy in a c7. Ultimately decided against having two cars so similar in appearance sharing my limited budget and garage space.
Dealer experience is lagging with US cars versus most imports. I don't think American manufacturers understand how much this means to consumers when they decide into buying into brand. US cars are very much competitive to foreign brands. But it's sometimes more than just the piece of tin they are selling.
The v series may be a special case But the regular ats I drive had a comparatively yuck interior Who does plastic chrome trim on the steering wheel While tha chassis was good they had benchmarked handling over ride to too great a degree. The motor sounded and felt insipid. The prior gen cts looked great and was something special the current one is meh. The appeal of luxury cars is both subjective and objective. The great American car today is the hellcat challenger. Here’s hoping the me vette nails it. We can all be patriotic but let’s not make excuses. Btw my daily is a 11 equinox, by far the best vehicle in its class at the time and I’ll take my Chevy service experience over my wife’s Mercedes any day. Say what you will about Cadillac the sales are not there and in the end it’s related to product execution But yeah the Cadillac makes for a great Malibu
A buddy just dumped his ford raptor. Said it was a total POS, constantly breaking things from leaking shocks to leaf springs to interior pieces. He's now got a Dodge Ram Rebel
Nothing like a caddy. Parents always had one (used , on a fireman's salary). During school I was handed down a '72 sedan, `76 coupe , '84 biarritz. A few years ago I leased a '15 cts-v coupe( super fun); then picked up a used xts as a shared ,third car; now I daily drive a '16 escalade ( still a comfy ride w/ 28k miles) .
Are you going for the comedic response in this thread? The Tundra has been an also-ran in the category ever since its introduction-even after aping the F150 and ballooning in size. It finishes poorly(dead last in some cases) in nearly every magazine comparo and trails all three of the domestic full size trucks in sales. I have a driven a few of them and found them to be lacking in many areas-truly a disappointment. Additionally, they are ugly-especially the older versions. They have well known suspension ,transmission, air pump,engine,rust and other issues over the years. While you could certainly make a case for the smaller Toyota trucks-the Tundra is a heap.
No one is making excuses. Sales are related to perceived status-the cars are very good. BTW, the Lotus makes for a great Miata.
the only knock Tundra has against it is gas mileage and they haven't redone it since 2007. remember Tundra trounced the "domestic" (Tundra more domestic than most domestics) half-tons and then they had to play catch up. they simply are more powerful (gas mileage there), better quality = fewer problems, and resale better (because of the before mentioned). We have a 2001 since new 200k miles hauled race cars for 10 years no issues. We also have a 2012 50k miles no issues and pulls a 16k gooseneck and tractor. I agree they aren't up to the latest last 5 years, but they still compete great considering a 2007 design, imagine what they would do again with an update like everyone else?
I’ve got 63,000 miles on my 2013 SC and it has been completely trouble free. And I do not baby my vehicles by any means.
Perceived status may be a factor, or put another way the Germans can get away with a Syd every now and again due to perceived status. But the larger issue with caddy is product. Maybe their new TTV8 and some redesign will give their ct6 or whatever it’s called some premium uplift. But the ct6 as the best caddy could do came to the market with essentially chevies v6 which sounds like muhhhh. They seemed to think that all Manner of electronic gewgaws and semi auto flurries were what would sell. The styling was forgettable as in if you owned the car you’d forget what it looked like the second you walked away. Cue simply sucks and is a deal breaker. I. Fact what’s with Gm making cars now where you can’t defeat the stop start. For all the good and talent at Gm they still do t get it. It’s like a company that regrets making cars and is trying to force us into some hippy Dippy googly iphoney future. Cars that inspire, cars to be coveted, cars that offer something more than function are what drives luxury sales. There’s a reason unreliable range rovers, raptors, jeeps, hellcats etc sell. They inspire and offer more than we’re transport, even though some of them are undeniably crude. Where the American x5 don’t say ct whatever my friend has one and some bits a great and some are like wtf. Where’s the American gk450 don’t say Escalade we all know that’s lipstick on a suburban and sells purely on mass and perceived status. Even if you look at the new equinox and traverse they took a decent solid vehicle and made it cheaper and lighter. That’s not how you grow your customer base. Cheapening outbor building cheap and crappy is no way to the future. Not to say others do t do it, but they hide it well. And yes imo bmw for the most part became like the domestics which means either they up their game again or their reputation is one decade away from being Cadillac. Fact is in every category (with rare exceptions) except trucks there’s someone who does it better.
I have a tundra. Not so sure the eco boost fords get better real world gas mileage and towing the ford is probably worse. Plus the tundra has a 10k tow rating right out the box. They also seem to last forever. In the debit Colum the tundra is like a truck from one or two cycles ago interns of dynamics and it’s engine when reeved like for example towing uphill, sounds and feels thrashy. It is in many respects what people would perceive to be a product of the type produced by the big3 except for reliability. The trucks of the big 3 esp for and now Chrysler are like Learjet limos in comparison, more of the refinement we traditionally expect from the euros. So USA can do things right. Can’t speak to big 3 realibility. When testing trucks 3 years ago I put ford way at the top, Gm at the bottom, seriously the chev tranny sucked and the interior felt to be built to last 3 years. The tundra was well a truck truck crude but felt like it would last forever.
If the lotus were as well refined as a Miata and had a dealer network as well as an suv then lotus may get somewhere. As it is the elise is a car that is in a special place of its own for peooke who appreciate a machine where every control simply works as it should , a track car that works on street. But you pay a big price In Refinement or any number of other qualities that people seem to ‘need’ in their sports cars today. On the other hand Miata excepted all the other sportscars are really just gt cars, heavy overpowered and overwrought. If you appreciate how a lotus drives it’s hard to go back to anything else. The one car that seems to have nailed it in this category is the new Renault alpine a110. In the flesh they look stunning and exotic enough to be exciting without being overdone. They are light yet fully Modern functional in modern traffic without the occupant suffering. They handle great yet have suspension compliance like all good French cars. To me the alpine has hit the spot the aircooled porche of the late 70 occupied, small fast exciting yet it works as a Car too. Probably still A niche though because most”sportscars” today are really bought as 2 door luxury cars that look sporty with lots of power. Here’s hoping for that me vette though to slay the supercar category
IMO too many gneralizations. You have to pick the class of vehicle you want then find the best in class for your compromises. It isn't always chevy, always GM or always bmw. 2011 when my kid was going 3000miles away to college it was bmw (4 year unlimited service). Who want;s to hear from their daughter, "daddy they want to put a new waterpump in my car." BMW 4 year fix whatever I don't care. When my kid was a tot there was nothing like the chevy suburban. When my car racing increased Ram 2500 megacab diesel was the only game in town.
Unless your objective as the OP is to beat up on Cadillac and anyone backward enough to buy one. Sean, I asked a simple question: What engine did the ATS that you drove have? I believe it's pertinent.
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After buying and selling musclecars in the 90's for fun, and owning some fun exotics, '96 TT 911, '95 355 Spider, 2005 Ford GT, 2013 California, I returned to my 1/4 mile days and bought a new 2018 Hellcat Charger. After driving the Challenger and Charger, I didn't like the slit windows, and 2 long coupe doors, and went with the Charger. I had owned a 2008 SRT8 Charger as my daily driver for 2 years, and always loved that car. I was about to buy a 60's - 1970 Hemi - Stage 1 - Ram Air 3 type of car again, when a buddy got in my ear about owning an old car again. The main issues are usually, leaky gas and fluids that make the garage stink, lots of play in the steering and braking systems, can't buy freon anymore, and those old systems barely kept you cool anyway. In Texas, you don't want to own a non AC car for long. The Hellcat is a crazy fast ride, that is sedate until you press to go pedal. You can be going 50mph, romp on the 8 speed auto, and it breaks the large tires loose in the back. The sound is Super Stock good as well. Seats 4 comfortably, for lunch with the guys at the office, or dinner with another couple. Air blows cold, and it has every timing device known to man built into the computer and video screens. 0-60, 0-100, 1/8th mile, 1/4 mile, top speed, g forces, hp, torque, you name it. I look forward to taking it to one of the fun run nights at the dragstrip soon. I handles well too, without being too stiff, and the giant Brembo's bring you down in a hurry. I know it's not for everyone, but it's perfect for me. Just ask Jimpo1 about his ride in the kitty. My ex-football playing buddy was riding in the back seat, and he said I need to ride back there sometime to feel the bang shifts that tranny puts out. 3 grown men, giggling about someone making a car like this. 1/4 mile in 11.0 is as fast as Super Stockers were in the 60's. And the 4,500 lb brick shape will get up to 204 mph, making it the fastest 4 door sedan built. Yes, I wanted a Demon, but not willing to pay over sticker. So far, it may be the most fun overall car I have ever owned ! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have no idea what comparisons you are basing any of that on-the Tundra is an also ran, at best. You may have convinced yourself that because a ten year old Camry had enviable reliability that the Tundra does as well-simply not true. There's a reason nearly every "real" job site uses domestic trucks-they are better. Even for suburbia use, the big three make a far more livable truck. Your anecdotal comments about mileage are fine-just realize that those numbers are commonplace within the Big Three community. Yeah, when we used a press Tundra to haul a car for a road test, it was able to do the job. Probably would have been acceptable if we hadn't been able to immediately hop into the Ford-no comparison-Ford was far better. Here are a couple of the latest beatings taken by the Tundra at the hands of Ford and GM: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/ford-f150-vs-toyota-tundra https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/chevrolet-silverado-vs-toyota-tundra
