Great Drives in Bad Cars. | FerrariChat

Great Drives in Bad Cars.

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by classic308, May 26, 2005.

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  1. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    I tried to get this subject going inside another thread. How about a list of great drives in bad cars, which to me is the best measure of talent. Need not be victories, just inspiring performances....

    I'll start it off....

    1. Gilles-1981 Spanish GP
    2. Ayrton-1984 Monte Carlo GP

    Your turn!
     
  2. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    Damon Hill in the Arrows in 97 Hungarian Grand Prix. Would have won if the car didn't have problems. A stunning drive.
     
  3. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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    The year Johncock beat Mears in the Indy 500...his tires were gone and he did a masterful job the last 2 laps in particular. I was a Mears fan too!

    Ken
     
  4. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    Any race that Senna scored points in with the Ford-powered McLaren in his last year with them.
     
  5. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    1982-Best finish of any Indy 500 I've ever seen. Posey and McKay were going nuts those last few laps.

    Quote: "Any race that Senna scored points in with the Ford-powered McLaren in his last year with them"

    The 1993 McLaren was not a bad car-Hakkinen out-qualified Senna (Portugal 93) right after Andretti got the boot. Mika qualified third, Senna 4th. Car was not that bad-not a Williams, but not 1992 Ferrari bad. I think Mika finished the last 3 GPs of that season for McLaren and he qualified in the top 6 each time despite his limited seat time.
     
  6. axemansean

    axemansean Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2004
    801
    1994
    Spain
    Benetton
    Guy named Michael Schumacher

    Finished 2nd with only 5th gear.
     
  7. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
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    Apr 25, 2002
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    #7 Dane, May 27, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Not a bad car but worth mentioning:

    Rubens, Hockenheim, 2000. Pouring rain and decided to stay on slicks. Won the race and cried his eyeballs out.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. Dane

    Dane Formula 3
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    Apr 25, 2002
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    Yeah...I've heard of him before! ;)
     
  9. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

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    1) Spanish GP 1981 G. Villeneuve in the evil handling 126C with the top 5 cars finishing within 3 Seconds, probably the best over all drive I have ever seen.

    2) Monaco GP 1981 G. Villeneuve 126 C

    3) 1) 1991 Brazilian GP, Senna WON stuck in 6th GEAR with the the two Williams drivers (Mansell and Patrese) hounding him from the beginning.
     
  10. sjb509

    sjb509 Guest

    Berger/Ferrari - Monza - 1988 (all cars were inferior to McLaren in '88)
    Nuvolari/Alfa - Nurburgring - 1935 (anything but victory for the Germans was incomprehensible)
    Panis/Ligier - Monaco - 1996
    Alesi/Ferrari - Canada - 1995
     
  11. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Alboreto winning the last race for NA Cosworth against an armada of powerful turbos.
     
  12. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
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    - Schumacher winning Hungary 1998 in a car 1 sec a lap slower than the top running McLarens.
    - Nuvolari in Nurburgring 1935 (as mentioned earlier)
    - Schumacher in Spain 1996 - his first win for truck like Ferrari in the wet against the dominant Williams
     
  13. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
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    Okay, let me rephrase that; any time Senna beat the Williams, without the Williams suffering mechanical problems.
     
  14. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Agree. The Williams had the best computers (active suspension).
     
  15. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    Mika had more miles in that car than either Andretti or Senna.
     
  16. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    But certainly no great experience at those particular circuits; certainly not more than Senna.
     
  17. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

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    Paul, Mika was no slouch ever, and he had been to those circuts when he was at Lotus. He did an outstanding job at his first gp with McLaren because he was the main development driver of the MP4/8.
     
  18. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    I know Mika was no slouch-he was a 2 time champ. I'm saying the McLaren was not as bad a car as a lot of people think. Please do not tell me that the McLaren was worse than the Ferrari, Tyrrell, Lotus, Ligier, Larrousse, Minardi, Jordan, Lola, Sauber and Footwork (Arrows) cars. Benetton may have had the works Ford motor but McLaren had a very good chassis. The Williams was all conquering but I believe that the McLaren was a very good car.
     
  19. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    I know he did a lot of the development work because Andretti was too *****-whipped to live in England. Check the "Least favorite driver" thread for my rationale.
     
  20. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

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    I hear you Paul, thank you for your comments, it is always a pleasure to chat with you as you are consistent and don't speak stupidly.
     
  21. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    Not to defend him cause he did a sh$t job representing the US in F1 but, Andretti didn't get as much seat time as he should have because Mika needed to earn his pay as well. Ron Dennis is not one to pay someone to do nothing so Mika got most of the testing miles. As far as Andretti not living in england, i remember him saying in an interview that it only took him something around 4 to 5 hours to get there by concorde. I think he got a raw deal by Ron Dennis. the 93 mclaren was a sweet handling car, it was far from bad but it was underpowered. I'd say the williams was better and the benetton was just as good. the ferrari that year was crap.
     
  22. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    I understand that it took only 4 or 5 hours to fly there but it was perceived that his COMMITMENT was severely lacking. In any form of racing the first person you want to beat is your teamate as both of you are (allegedly) using the same equipment; when your teamate is Senna the bar is extremely high; when it is your rookie year in F1 beating Senna is going to be that much harder; when your father is one of the most versatile drivers of all time (how many drivers have won the Indy 500, F1 Championship AND the Daytona 500-that would be Mario then) the last thing you need is to have your commitment questioned. Ron Dennis said the tone was set when Michael didn't want to relocate to England. Your teammate is one of the greats (who divorced his wife to obtain his goal) and your worried about commuting? That is 8-10 hours (going to & coming back) wasted on an airplane seat that could have been spent in an F1 seat doing miles. If Ron didn't want him to do a lot of testing then Mike should have said "F you" and moved onto another team.

    We are talking about the pinnacle of racing here and Michael handled it all wrong-and I believe he ended up divorcing his wife anyway....

    "I could have been a contender.."
     
  23. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    I never liked him; still don't. Montoya and him should get on well together. *****es x 2!
     
  24. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    Whist i agree it was handled wrong on Michael's part, Ron Dennis thinking that he not moving to England set the tone is bullsh$t. If that was the case then he purposely didn't give him the testing miles as a form of punishment. I recall many people saying Senna was very displeased with the may the situation was dealt with, so something had to have been wrong there. When you have a new driver it's only logical that you give him all the seat time you can, whether you have another driver waiting in the wings or not. Even if it meant have Mika waiting around doing nothing that's what Dennis should have done. I strongly feel that he set him up for failure.
     
  25. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

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    Andretti seemed to be a marked man by the F1 establishment from the start. Remember he came over as defending CART Champion which at the time was a great series. Mansell was greeted here as Royalty and our guy was treated like a chump. I think Ecclestone wasn't too unhappy to show that the CART Champion was inferior to the F1 Guys.
     

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