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Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Rob Lay, Aug 1, 2017.
aaahhhh.... then my immediate ire is misplaced and my senses calmed !
You are correct in that I have not submitted my car for the Classiche Certification process, and frankly I cannot see any reason to do so from either an expense viewpoint or a value added perspective. Many years ago I did get the "Heritage Certificate" which Mike Sheehan mentions from Ferrari at no cost. Since Pebble Beach on 2008 (where Piero Ferrari and Jean Todt awarded the Enzo Trophy for the Best Ferrari on the Field), and subsequent shows, 17 of the top 18 Ferrari judges in the world using the IAC/PFA regulations could find nothing wrong with the car including from an originality standpoint and it remains a 100 point car.
At Cavallino in Jan 2009 (where the car took Best of Show), I had a long conversation with Roberto Vaglietti and Marco Arrighi (each sequentially head of Classiche) in which they stated that I knew more about the car and its history than they, and further that the crankcase without an internal motor number could not have come from the Factory because "they always stamped them". I obviously disagree with that comment. We also discussed the fact that the factory willfully gave the car a serial number which had already been used in order for a client to avoid either carnet or tax issues. I suspect that even today that such an admission would pose some legal issue for a major manufacturer.
I am secure in the knowledge of what I have in my garage.
No, none has. Never had.
Do you work for Ferrari? Just because the company treats us like gullible idiots doesn't mean you have to as well. Just read Sheehan's article.
Not sure I follow you. Mille Miglia is neither organised by Ferrari, nor do they set the eligibility criteria. Only the MM Ferrari Tribute is a Ferrari event. Same for Targa Florio. I believe this is a new requirement for next year.
Years ago i read an article in one of the English classic car mags. the author was running an old 400I a car which at the time was worth little. he loved the cara nd the whole experience exept the part where p[eople said he rana ferrari. From his prespective ownign a ferrari put you in a special category of Naff.
Lets face it ferrari is now a bogus brand and as a car guy saying you own a ferrari is pretty negative image in most people's mind, which sadly today says much about the cars and why people today own them. Yes some of the new cars are still sort of great, but much of the greatness "has left the building".
The last authetic car company who makes cars bought by "real" enthusiasts is lotus who have c;lose on zero brand reckognition amongst the suckers.. In my book the lambo perfomante is far more of an authentic Italian drivers car than any current ferrari. Even second fiddle porche has seen fit to offer cars for drivers in the Gt3 and GT4.
ferrari today is mostly a paper fast noisy flashy easy to drive car for suckers who cant drive, essentialy a luxury wheeled handbag to display wealth or play out some imagined youth that the owner never would have really lived anyway.
Behind that lay legions of 308 mondial testraossa 355 and 550 owners who are the real true core enthusiasts of the brand. People of some but not unlimited means who love the cars for how they go more than what they represent. Yes there are soem billionares with exceptional taste too, who really max out their 275's f40's etc, but thats a severe minority at this point.
The macinations of the factory, the dealer games, classiche, well it takes much of the thrill and fun out of it.
Go to any trackday, which is the place in the 21st century where driving enthusiasts go to really use their cars. Or evn go to a private club track populated by people of means. You'll notice that real enthisiasts today, they apply elsewhere. sad but true.
And that, Robert, is good enough for me and most other real Ferrari enthisiasts.
It always gives me pleasure to see your car and from a brief conversation we had at the Quail a couple of years ago, your knowledge of and affection for the marque was clear to all.
With kind regards
My 330 is kept in the UK and I had the process done there. Quite painless but yes it did take 6-12 months from start to finish but that didn't matter. I did it because it was clear that the price of doing it was going to go up and up so best to get in sooner. Didn't do it for any other reason than its a nice thing to have and as custodian of the car for the next generation it's incumbent on me to gather the history and this is just part of it. In 20 years time the red book will be just part of a big box of files that track the life of the car and the next custodians will thank me for having done it.
I can only speak for myself. My Classiche experience at Ferrari Ft. Lauderdale, shepherded by Al Roberts, was an enjoyable, positive experience from start to finish. I'm glad I did it and would do it again without reservation if the opportunity ever presents itself.
This is "it'.
Publicly traded stock-
Airlines charging for 'extra-bags' and meals
Can you feel it?
What disturbs me is the attention to detail of their restoration work. I've been told by world class American restorers (People who are trusted with real GTO's and other examples of that caliber) that they actually end up correcting some of the work done on cars at Classiche.
The American restorers are much more detail oriented. The Italians know how to make them run but the Americans know this should be a light green wire here and a dark blue wire there. The Italians don't care about green or blue let alone the shade.
My dealings with Ferrari Classiche in the past have been very pleasant. I do believe they have there place in this system.
Also dealt with Ferrari Historians and they also have there place in the car market, but for a different car.
Possibly should call this now, the "Car Investment Business."
Take 4 Ferrari's to illustrate this;
1) 166 Inter - a buyer of this car will have done his homework. The Classiche Cert is not a significant part of the cars value. A certification by a known historian would be of much more value to the car and to the cars value.
2) 275GTB - The purchaser of this type has knowledge of Ferraris and the value of a historians report and a Ferrari Red book. If the same car had one or the other, probably more buyers would prefer a Classiche Cert but a Historians report would be of more value to the car.
3) Enzo - being a modern Ferrari of sort. Chances are this would appeal to younger buyers and although a Ferrari Red book in reality does not mean much to the validity of this actually being an Enzo, it probably would sell the car at a higher price / or quicker, than the same car not having one.
4) 430 - Definitely to the avaerage Joe a Ferrari Cert is more appealing here. Has the company name behind the car and basically who the heck is a historian.
I would generally agree with this.
Careful, Jack. You may be accused of being a Ferrari corporate mole, or up to unscrupulous espionage. HA. I'm glad you enjoyed the Classiche services.
It's all good. No need for everyone to get all upset about it. It's a service the factory offers. I think it's a great option for some. Nobody is forced to take advantage of it.
Jess said he did.
I would agree. If this is true, that is very disturbing.
I was at the factory for a tour back in April and I went to the Classiche department. Of course, I didn't inspect every detail of the cars, but I can say that there was certainly an amazing collection there being fully restored. On that day, there was an all but finished 250 LM (china red with panno blu interior), a 250 TR (which was just about ready to be reassembled and about 6 other high-end cars. I really enjoyed the experience.
It's absolutely true; we've had more than one world-class restorer fly-spec our car to correct Classiche work on customer cars.
If I understand the new rules correctly, you will have an opportunity - paying every year for the "mandatory yearly service" to "maintain" your Classiche certification . . .
I'm guessing these are Enzo era cars from the 50's and 60's, given that's the vast majority of cars that are restored by the factory? Just curious.
SO a question for Jeff Kennedy (don't mean to put you on the spot!), given the closeness of the Factory w/ the FCA in the last several years (heck, there is a contract), how far off is the day when only Classiche-certified cars will be allowed to show at an FCA National?
In general I agree about "real car guys"...I'm a life long car guy, and I'm not impressed by the "stuff", be it an old tool roll I'll never use, or a red book that tells me what I already know - that my car is a Ferrari.
But even on this forum of passionate car lovers, there are many who feel differently, and I think Classiche exploits that.
Some even copied it ... integrally ...