great Sheehan Classiche article

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Rob Lay, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie
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    Yep, this bothers me as well. The 225S that lives here in Brazil had work done by Classiche's contractors when it underwent certification, and some of it is not really up to par, if you speak with a few people in the know.
     
  2. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Formula Junior

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    What is the "stuff" that is being referenced?
     
  3. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

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    Search this forum for manuals, tool rolls and, my favorite, "clock hang tags"
     
  4. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Exactly. To me "stuff" is anything other than the car itself. Books, manuals, tool rolls, dealer manifests, all the way down to factory brochures and colour chip books for the year the car was built.

    All of these things are fun to have around and cool to look at, but in no way change your Ferrari into something it isn't already, i.e.- a Ferrari.

    The trouble comes when these things become requirements by common decree. We already see dealers and auction houses highlighting the above items in ads, as they are perceived to add to the originality of the car....or maybe I should say to "complete" the originality of the car. The car isn't enough. It has to come with "the stuff", too. Even a lot of devoted car guys get caught up in this trend.

    IMO, Classiche is trying to insert themselves into this mix. Once red books become common place, it will be harder to move a car on without one.

    I've already seen this play out in the vintage watch world. First it was "hey, I found a cool old watch". Then you couldn't say "old" anymore...it was "vintage". Then it was only acceptable to have the best of the best, "New Old Stock" only - no dings or damaged dials or polished cases. Then you needed to have the "box and papers" that came with the watch, etc etc. Same thing is happening/has happened with vintage cars, only at a much higher price point.

    Let's be honest and admit that for most of us, cars come with some degree of addictive behaviour. Classiche has certainly cottoned onto that fact and I think they're milking it. But that's just one man's opinion.
     
  5. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Rookie
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    Bryan,

    The contract you speak of addresses many other items but does not make the club a factory arm. There are some clubs in the world that are directly run by SpA but the FCA is absolutely independent. The FCA and SpA/FNA currently do have some aligned interests.

    Only Classiche certified cars for the Meet? I do not see that happening. The IAC/PFA sets the standards for the Meet so they are the ultimate authority on this.

    Jeff
     
  6. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 Veteran
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    Gerald Roush got at the Ferrari records; specifically the Ferrari build sheets. They were stored at that time rather haphazardly in cardboard boxes. The records were not complete and certain serial numbers were no longer there. The factory specifically asked that he not publish any of those numbers.
    To them it wasn't a big deal though. You could send for a copy of the build sheet for an early Ferrari for $25 and sometimes they sent the wrong result, instead for a different car. Much more quickly the correct second build sheets would arrive. Sort of two for the price of one.
    Jacques Swaters also visited the factory and surveyed the records and he said even brought along his computer...
     
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  8. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Rookie
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    The Ferrari Tribute to the Mille Miglia is run by the 1000 Miglia srl and not by Ferrari. All my applications and paperwork as well as payments before hand as well as the entire check in process in Brescia was handled by people from 1000 Miglia srl.

    As for Classiche being a requirement for the 2018 Ferrari Tribute would only make sense for older cars as the event allows brand new models to be run. So far there is nothing on their website and no replies to my emails from my contacts over there. IMO this is a false rumor.
     
  9. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, I won't be taking advantage of that particular opportunity.:)

    But I'm surprised they haven't thought of this: expiration dates on certifications. Re-certify or turn in your book, which would be Ferrari property, leased to the customer.

    Oops....maybe I gave 'em an idea!
     
  10. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Formula Junior

    May 14, 2017
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    According to my dealer, as of a conversation yesterday with the person that oversees Classiche certification at the dealership, they have not heard anything from Ferrari about an annual certification requirement. I suppose it could happen, but it doesn't exist currently, despite all the asssumptions.
     
  11. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior
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    Well I received my Classiche book this week and it certainly does say that it is only valid for one year unless the car is re-certified by a Classiche approved Ferrari dealer (It seems that in the UK not all dealers will be able to do this). I started the Classiche process late last year and none of this was mentioned then. Rather disappointing really.
     
  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    #86 Marcel Massini, Aug 4, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Very sorry to disagree. No assumptions at all.
    It very much exists already. Your contacts/dealer are not up-to-date. Which dealer have you been talking to?
    See here. This is the new Factory Classiche Libretto Manutenzione ("Maintenance Booklet", additional little booklet to the standard red certification book) which every year will have to be stamped by the authorized Classiche representative. It is like a passport. Sorry for poor iphone quality pix.

    Marcel Massini
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  13. Marcel Massini

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    #87 Marcel Massini, Aug 4, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In the UK so far it is Graypaul Motors and Joe Macari in London and one or two others that have been officially appointed Officina Ferrari Classiche. I understand in the end it will be a total of four Officine (plural) in the UK.

    Here is a photo of Joe Macari's new Officina Ferrari Classiche in London. I took this 28 December 2016, a few days before the official opening.

    Marcel Massini
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  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    #88 Marcel Massini, Aug 4, 2017
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  16. Big red

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    Guess I'm in the camp of keeping all my service work showing I paid the taxes as well as my red booklet for my cars.

    The yearly recertification is absurd, even my doctor and dentist don't have to go back yearly to be recertified.
     
  17. The Red Baron

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    Who is the dealer that has association now with 'Luca M's ' purchasing investment group.
    Wanting to know if they have been appointed Officina Ferrari Classiche.
     
  18. Marcel Massini

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    JD Classics (Derek Hood) in London but they are NOT official Ferrari dealers. They deal with all sorts of classic cars, not just Ferraris. They have recently joined forces with Morris & Welford (Miles Morris and Malcom Welford) in Newport Beach/CA.
    JD Classics belongs to Matteo Montezemolo's company Charme Capital Partners. Matteo is the son of Luca Cordero di Montezemolo.
    Their website:

    http://www.charmecapitalpartners.com/who-we-are

    Marcel Massini
     
  19. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

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    I was waiting for this...
    Hood sold out to some Italian conglomerate a long time ago....
    JD Classics merge with Morris & Welford...

    Let's see what occurs...


    Paul
     
  20. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Formula Junior

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    Could it be that this hasn't launched in the US yet?
     
  21. energy88

    energy88 F1 Rookie
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    Either that, or the dealer you spoke with wasn't selected (yet). My understanding is that selected dealers must pay an annual lease fee ($5,500?) for the sign. The photo of the sign Marcel posted is very nice looking.
     
  22. of2worlds

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    I should correct the above and note that the late Mr Roush visited the factory a few times in the 80's and got some photocopies of the factory build sheets but at no time had the originals.
     
  23. SAFE4NOW

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    ^^^^ I can confirm this.

    When this topic came up a month or so ago, I was caught off guard as well.

    Since then I've been trying to keep up.

    FWIW , my understanding is that we ( Dealerships ) have a few more weeks to get our applications in and agreements signed for consideration into the program.

    While I want to be part of it, it may not make as much sense , since there does not seem to as much interest in our area , nor as many cars that would qualify due to owner upgrades and such...
     
  24. SAFE4NOW

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    Question based upon your comments above

    YOU purchase an expensive car
    YOU chose to NOT maintain it for 10 years
    YOU chose to sell it

    Has the value increased or decreased?

    OTOH....

    YOU purchase an expensive car
    YOU follow guidelines that the manufacturer of said expensive car came up with
    YOU chose to sell it

    Can you provide an example of a car that has LOST value because the guidelines set out by the manufacturer were followed?

    Or put another way

    YOU are looking to purchase an expensive car, are you going to pay MORE when you find a car that was NOT maintained per the manufacturer guidelines?

    Extortion... no one is forcing anyone to participate , IMO there is a choice.

    I've never forced any owner to purchase Classiche, I even do my best to all but give it away, as long as the actual fee's charged by Ferrari are paid.

    This is proving once again to be an interesting discussion and I can say that I am learning a lot by following this thread!

    S
     
  25. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Classiche has nothing to do with maintenance.
     
  26. SAFE4NOW

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    I am well aware, I was using maintenance as an example.

    But since you pointed out what I said may be construed as such, how about this for continued discussion:

    It seems that Classiche wants you to "maintain "the Classiche certification by
    "maintaining" the certification through annual inspection / confirmation.

    Something that can easily be done when you are having the annual service performed... which an owner is already doing , right? So, what's the big deal if they stamp and sign off in your Classiche book as confirmed each year at the same time?

    I have not once been told what I HAVE to charge for the inspection , so as I outlined in another discuss about this same topic a month or so ago, I for one will absolutely include the annual Classiche inspection as part of the annual service...

    -OR-

    Is this more about the owner who swapped / borrowed parts from a friend in order to GET the original Classiche and now will be put out to have to do it every year to maintain it?


    S
     
  27. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    Our cars have all been maintained either by a dealer or highly-qualified, ex-factory-trained techs. Either to factory recommended schedules or better. That's not the issue. And, Classiche, as stated by miura, has nothing to do with maintenance.

    So, you're missing the mark with your question. I really can't write a whole white paper right now on what's wrong with Classiche, though. There's oodles of posts available, if you care to read them.

    CW
     

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