great Sheehan Classiche article

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Rob Lay, Aug 1, 2017.

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  1. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Rookie
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    Finally we are on the same page here.

    Yes, this guy said he believes that the Ferrari Tribute to the Mille Miglia WILL require Classiche

    He responds to my post about the Ferrari Tribute to the Mille Miglia by saying...

    and you agreed with him and further stated that ..

    So once again, so we are on the same page. There are three events run during the Mille Miglia and one is called the "Ferrari Tribute to the Mille Miglia" and as of yet, other than BarryK, no one else believes that a Ferrari Classiche certificate will be required for anyone wishing entry in 2018?
     
  2. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Screw Ferrari. I don't care how anybody spins it. This is nothing more than a money grab by Ferrari. If you are so insecure about your car that you need a "book" from Spa to enable you to sleep at night, nothing is going to help you.
     
  3. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Bingo. I'd say the same thing for a tool roll, as well.
     
  4. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    #155 TTR, Aug 7, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
    I wonder if technicians(?) seeking to advance their certification credentials at this facility are being taught actual history and hands-on techniques how the older/vintage cars were made or if the curriculum is designed more for how they're expected to tow the Corporate line without questioning it (i.e. "I hereby pledge ..." or something to that effect) ?

    It would be interesting to see how difficult to grasp the concept of the real history, especially the vintage hand crafting techniques is for younger techs(?) who are more accustomed to provide services by computer diagnosing and replacing part(s) IT deems defective on vehicles mostly assembled/built by robots at different stages of a converyor belt.
     
  5. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Now, now !?!
    Someday "They" might (or will ?) expand the program to include those and books/manuals too. And only authorized/blessed/stamped sets, whether or not they came the specific car, will be eligible.
    And I can see the future: Any and all parts or performed services, even if done in the past, not acquired thru "proper" channels will disqualify certification.
     
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  7. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Not to worry- if your tool roll is missing a screwdriver, Classiche can source one for you from a 3rd party and then bless ($$$) it for you so it's 'real'.

    I'm with Lancia
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/145513632-post149.html
    and Dale
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/145513901-post152.html

    Gang of corporate money grabbers who have no ties or knowledge connecting them to Enzo era who think they can hire experts to administer and then monetize the entirety of Ferrari ownership at exorbitant rates. What a load of BS.
     
  8. The Strad

    The Strad Formula Junior
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    I found this 'old' Fchat page....

    FerrariChat.com: Do Ferraris use Fiat Parts ?

    I wonder what the Classiche experts would say, if they 'd find out that some of your Ferrari parts (handles, switches, lights, etc...) originally didn't come out of a Ferrari box.
     
  9. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Rookie
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    It's been a long time since I saw it, but once I saw a Ferrari/Fiat interchange manual for parts. I wonder if there is a current one out there?
     
  10. The Strad

    The Strad Formula Junior
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    What a pity.....that Red Book somehow belongs to a specific car.
    When I sold my 328 GTS, it was clear that the deal was, 'Red Book included'. Not only the buyer was quite passionate about it, so was I! I had the Certification done a few years earlier, and I never regretted it. For the nice memory of it, it just made a copy (of the main certification page) for my archive.
    Anyway, the Certification, and the Red Book as proof of it, helped selling the 328 pretty fast (and advantageous, I 'd say).
     
  11. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    So how soon until we start seeing "fake" Red Books flooding market places, including memorabilia shows around the globe ? Blank ones, if needed ?
    Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all if such were already available.
    And once again, it might take experienced & keen eyes of experts to distinguish between them and real ones.
    Maybe an annual certification for the Red Book will eventually be required ? ;-)
     
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  13. Big red

    Big red F1 World Champ
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    Nothing is stopping people to do it once if they choose. You get a nice book that verifiers the car if you need that special feeling. I'm sure they will be more than happy to take your money.
     
  14. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 Formula Junior
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    That's pretty interesting read.
    I think the classiche certification seem, to an extend, to be a way to make money for ferrari.
    For a TR i agree with what you are saying but also to get classiche don't you have to have a stock exhaust on ? I thought most people change theirs, so if u dont have the original how do u pass?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    You don't.

    Marcel Massini
     
  16. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 Veteran
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    #166 of2worlds, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    #167 TTR, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
    If I've understood correctly they're mainly still focusing on "major" components, not yet on trim details. Perhaps in the future... ?
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    In the 60s and 70s almost all cars were delivered without installed rear view mirrors. They came in a box in the trunk or interior and the client and/or dealer decided if and where he wanted the mirrors installed or not. This has nothing to do with Classiche and the certification system.

    Marcel Massini
     
  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #169 miurasv, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Classiche are giving Red Book certification to cars that are not in their original mechanical specification as they last left the factory as demonstrated by 275 GTB 08117 which was originally a 3 carb but converted to 6 carbs (Weber 40 DCN 18) in the mid 1990s. However it is noted in the book that the original specification was 3 carb (Weber 40 DCZ 6).

    See Fantasy Junction pic attached of the relevant section of the Red Book.
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  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    #170 Marcel Massini, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In the case of 08117 it is also interesting to note that the factory does have no records of the car as born with an alloy bodywork. However, the car does have an alloy bodywork. The records at the factory do not show that.

    08117 was serviced once at the Assistenza Clienti in Modena, on 3 September 1969, the odometer at the time showed 23'088 kms and 08117 was already with the 4th Italian owner.

    Marcel Massini
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  21. Rob Lay

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    Hmm, so they will allow exceptions now for all Ferraris that have had fuel systems changed? carb to FI? Control systems?
     
  22. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    So can one assume their cars don't get driven much either ?
     
  23. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
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    My experience with more than 10 FC cars and ex cars is that they show flexibility when people are in good faith and it is not a major item or was an option at the time.
    For others like double exhaust on 308 GTB they ask for the original system.
    So they are not as flexible as some people wish, but not as stubborn as represented by some angry customers or would be customers.
    And in some cases they don't know as there are no archives to give the answer and we have to live with that. On both sides!
    At the end the FC book as MM mentioned many many times, does not replace a proper due diligence and need to know what you buy, its history and condition. You can do it yourself if you know something or are confident in your knowledge, or hire an expert or a group of, but this is different and complement what the factory has to say. But one does not replace the other.
     
  24. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    All this is amazing. 40 DCN 18's are NOT correct for ANY Two Cam 275. They are a 4 Cam carburetor.
     
  25. 360gtracer

    360gtracer Formula Junior
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    I've read this entire thread, and others like it in the past, and my understanding has always been that the red book "certification" certifies that the car is "original" (perhaps "correct" is a better word) in that it is how it left the factory, with matching number parts, and all other parts original or as supplied when new.

    How then does my Dad's former Ferrari (0313 EU), after being restored to an exceptionally high standard, receive the red book certification with an incorrectly numbered engine?

    The car has been sold several times since the restoration, but I wonder if it would have brought even more with the correct engine? But even that aside, if the factory will certify a car with a blatantly incorrect engine, it would seem to invalidate any value at all (real or imagined) in any red book certification.

    Do numbers *not* have to match in order to receive factory certification??

    Thanks.

    gp
     

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