Greatest designer of all time | FerrariChat

Greatest designer of all time

Discussion in 'F1' started by moretti, Oct 29, 2012.

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Greatest Designer of F1

  1. Gerard Ducarouge

  2. Owen Maddock

  3. Harvey Postlethwaite

  4. Vittorio Jano

  5. Gordon Murray

  6. Mauro Forghieri

  7. Patrick Head

  8. Rory Byrne

  9. Colin Chapman

  10. Adrian Newey

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    All right, with all this forelock tugging to Newey and RBR I thought it time we had a look at all the great designers from the past and present and see who polls better, but for a change it might help some here to recognise some truly great designers by doing some reading before ticking a box :

    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/06/15/ten-great-formula-1-designers/

    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/06/18/top-ten-greatest-formula-1-designers-part/

    I can't decide, but it's not Newey for me, either Byrne or one of the great Italians like Jano
     
  2. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Notable years for Byrne are 2002 and 2004, for newey without shadow of doubt 1992 and 2011. What they've accomplished in an ever tighter field, with more restrictions, is fantastic.
     
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Where's Barnard?

    Pete
     
  4. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    You're missing Gustaf Brunner.
     
  5. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    Thanks for the links. I found it very interesting. :)

    My vote is for Adrian Newey. :)
     
  6. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

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    Got to be Newey, he's working within the tighest set of regulations of any of them and still coming out on top more often than not.
     
  7. fluque

    fluque Formula 3

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    This last sentence in the article says it all

    "Perhaps even more so than an Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton, Newey is the one man in the paddock every team would love to have on their payroll"
     
  8. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    All of those on the list were great in their time. But today's F1 cars are incredibly complicated, and require knowledge beyond suspensions and engine tuning.

    Newey is #1.
     
  9. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    Newey? really - are peoples memory that short?

    Colin Chapman is singlehadedly responsible for how F-1 is today!

    a short list of firsts:

    1. tube frame & aluminum skin
    2. Stressed member engine & suspension
    3. "rising rate" geometry suspension - Lotus 72
    4. front wings - spoilers on F-1 car
    5. pressurized airbox - Lotus 72
    5. - the big one - Ground effects
    6. side mounted radiators
    8. Monocque chassis construction
    9. double chassis car
    10. composite construction aluminum/ nomex honey combe
    and the list will go on for tiny evolution....

    Newey is a good / great designer - aerodynamicist... but the best of all time? not even close. to design a modern F-1 car is EASIER because the rules basically dictate the car for you. Using CFD and all the aero mods may seem hard, but that is becuase we are talking about tiny adjustments - double diffusers etc...
     
  10. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Firstly, cool thread Moretti! ;)

    No argument from me that he's the best aerodynamicist. Best designer, not so much IMO. Further, one could make an argument that the "tight regulations" make their lives easier as so many of the details are now fixed for 'em.... Oops, as Tom notes;

    Sure seems so!..... OTOH, He's been dead for ~30 years :)() so I guess it's to be expected that many don't remember him the way us old'uns do......

    +1 My vote too.

    +1

    Certainly, they're all (even the minnows) much closer together now than they were. and Newey has certainly come out on top on more than his fair share of occasions. Currently the best? Sure.

    Best of all time? Not a chance.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  11. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Newey? Not many historians on this forum. I vote for Jano. BTW my favorite Chapman design was the Lotus 88, just brilliant.
     
  12. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Chapman was an innovator; Forghieri I believe was the last person to single handily design an entire WDC car (312T series); Newey is currently at the top of his game but Byrne IMHO was better. All of the people listed are brilliant in their own way.

    Again if I were to start an F1 team TODAY my first choice would be Newey, more so than any driver.
     
  13. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    +1. Jano was genius, always thought the Loti were not only great cars but also easy on the eyes (excluding this year's of course lol).
     
  14. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    +1 right back at you! The original 312T is one of the all-time greats.
     
  15. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

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    Adrian Newey, not only that he is still at the Zenith of his career, but the fact that he has been doing so, since the late 80's early 90's.
     
  16. fluque

    fluque Formula 3

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    #16 fluque, Oct 29, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
    Like drivers it's very difficult to compare designers across eras. Having said that Newey has won constructor championships with three different teams over 20 years.

    As others pointed out Colin Chapman was arguably the greatest innovator and gave us a number of breakthrough features that since became ubiquitous in F1 designs. But IMO being the best designer does not equate to being the greatest innovator. The best designer is the one who has developed and raced the most successful cars whether it's by new proprietary ideas or improving those of others. Newey gets my vote.
     
  17. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    1. Definitely not Colin. Pre war cars had aluminum skin.
    2. Lancia D50 had a stressed engine acting as part of the chassis. A Jano design.

    Colin was a clever guy though, but his greatest achievement and influence on Motorsport was sponsorship.
    Pete
     
  18. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Barnard used to single handedly design his cars. He designed the McLaren MP4 (the first successful carbon fibre chassis) that Murray then evolved.

    Barnard also gave us the paddle shift gearbox and his Ferraris would have won Prost and Ferrari a WDC if Senna hadn't taken him out at Suzuka.
    Pete
     
  19. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    When I meant aluminum skin I meant as part of the rigidity of the whole car. Chapman & Lotus used tube frame and stressed aluminum for chassis back in the early 60's. I think it was Lotus 23? not sure.

    Lancia D50 did not carry the engine with suspension & gearbox bolted as the load bearing part of the car. all the engines were stressed, however Chapman's inovation was that there were no chassis spars to support the engine, it was a fully load bearing part of the car... chassis, suspension gearbox assembly. this is essentially the way all F-1 cars today are made.

    Sponsorship could actually be credited to Enzo Ferrari with Shell, Firestone, and Champion... but Champman did it first by calling his Lotus a Gold Leaf Team Lotus...


    I really hate to say that it was better in the old days etc... and Adrian Newey is certainly a brilliant engineer.. and winning with three teams is impressive, however Chapman was at thr forefront from 1962 - 1982... he had some lean years 74- 76 and again 79 - 81 but really he was competitive out of the box, and his cars stayed that way for well over a decade.
    Newey has been good, but not that good. when he was at March - his cars were good, but failed to really win anything ( partly to driver and funding ) When he joined Williams he inherited a superb engineering staff and system. Williams had already been WDC in 80, 82, 86,... and when he came to McLaren same thing... he inherited a fantastic orginization and made the most of it.

    Colin Chapman not only built Lotus from the ground up, layed out the general design of the cars, did the forward thinking and figured out how to bend the rules... all while running a road car company, juggling many girls on the side....bank fraud etc...it gets pretty gnarly when you look at the facts - he was NO Angel!
     
  20. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    +1

    Good post.
     
  21. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Colin bought none automotive companies to motorsport.
    Not the designers fault but the F1 rule makers AND also the fact that we have worked out how to design/build a race car now. Back in the old days we were still discovering.
    Pete
     
  22. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

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  23. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    I meant:

    Colin bought non automotive related companies to motorsport.

    Pete
     
  24. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Hmmm..... I (regretfully) think you may be right......

    While it's terribly easy to blame the rules makers (got any better ideas?), I suspect you're spot on - "We" now know how to make a fast car.

    It's incredibly depressing to think there's no more "innovation" possible however. :(

    OTOH, an "open" formula ("restrict max fuel flow and let 'em at it"), while appealing, is unsustainable IMO. :(

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  25. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    unsustainable maybe, but a hell of a lot of fun until the fun police stop the lunacy :D

    I quite like having the cars restricted to 3 litres , 1.5 metre wheelbase , no wings and slicks
    (but nothing wrong with underbody aerodynamics to keep the car on the road, but no ground effects !!).

    But some good observations though that it is easier to design a car now due to the huge rule book limiting the design parameters to the point it comes pre-designed to a point with minimal poking at the edges ... makes for a boring similarity between the cars today :(
     

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