http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86341 Ground effect, turbos set for F1 return By Jonathan Noble Friday, September 3rd 2010, 13:33 GMT Formula 1 teams are closing in on finalising all-new regulations for 2013 that will likely see a return of ground effect cars and turbo engines - as the sport witnessed in the early 1980's. Several think-tank Working Groups have been set up to get consensus on moves to improve the spectacle of F1 and ensure it becomes more environmentally friendly. On the engine side, draft regulations were circulated among teams a few weeks ago and the latest plan is for 1.6-litre four-cylinder turbo engines to become standard. The power units will be bolstered by numerous energy recovery systems, and should produce around 650bhp. Plans are also being considered to limit engines to just five per driver per season. In a bid to further increase F1's green credentials, teams are also keen for there to be a fuel flow rate limit - which will ensure the engines are economical. Williams technical director Sam Michael said: "Rather than dump as much fuel in as we can at the moment, there will be a fuel flow metre - so you won't be able to blow more than a certain amount of fuel. It is a good chunk less than we had at the moment." On the chassis front, Williams co-owner Patrick Head and former Ferrari designer Rory Byrne are working with the FIA to head up concepts for new car rules. Teams are keen for the cars to be better for overtaking than the current generation of machines - with ground effect being actively considered. "They are talking about putting a greater proportion of down force to the diffuser, a ground effect car - like the early 1980's," added Michael. "They have been looking at that, as well as increasing crash protection at the front of the car by moving the sidepods further forwards."
As far as I am concerned, FIA is contradicting itself on the engine definition, by imposing a configuration and a fuel flow at the same time. They should have just imposed a fuel flow, and let the engineers to design the most fuel-efficient power unit. Deciding the number of cylinders and the cubic capacity would have been part of the challenge.
+1 I'd have gone even further - Engine size, configuration and "fuel flow" is up to you - BUT, you only get XX gallons of gas for the race - Use it as you see fit...... cheers, Ian
Can we call this Formula Stupid? Why not just extend the season to 43 races. A restrictor plate by any other name... They could make the diffuser the only ground effects device by <say> banning the wings other aero devices.....
Well at least there are looking at ways to improve the show, and trying to be green at the same time.
What is the point of being green? F1 consumes a crazy amount of resources and going from a NA V8 to a Turbo 4 would not even reduce the carbon footprint of F1 by .00001% It is dumb PC BS
Why don't we just take this to its logical conclusion if we want to be green? All of the teams can just race on-line in their own simulators at their home bases. We would not need to fly 1,000s of people, cars and equipment around the world for 20 races. We would not have build cars. We would not burn all of those messy evil hydrocarbons. The spectators would not have to go to the races, they would just watch on the internet. I think we could have this in place for next season
Can you say INDY CAR RACING... if f1 does this I am out... sorry but this 30+ year fan will have to start watching something else
Fully agree. Motorsports never has and never will be 'green'. The environmentalists will never be happy about it at all, and the fact that F1 bended over and trying to go green for a number of years now is just the first bit of their evil plan to make the world greener and worse. Why don't they just lie and say they're very green? Tell them that the fuel is grown from potatoes on a very green field, the factory the petrol is made in is powered by windmills and painted very green with special ecological green paint. It'll work because environmentalists are stupid. It's a win win situation. --- As for the 4 cilinders, really gay. 650hp too. Too little. Give them x amount of fuel to play with for the race (a lot, so they don't go in fuel saving toyota prius mode), 1000+ hp, no traction control and little aero. Men will be separated from the boys, racing will be awesome again and Sundays are rescued.
Why? A 1.6 turbo is *very* applicable to mom & pop...... I also remember the 1.5 turbos last time round and they were *awesome* in the end. Today, it's almost scary to think what power they could deliver..... Limiting 'em to 5 a year sucks, but again, that means they've gotta be reliable and there's nothing wrong with that - Push the envelope in multiple directions at the same time. I for one don't (really ) want a return to the days of the qualifying car/engine situation - Getting 3-4 laps from the motor and then rebuilding it doesn't make sense today IMO. [some of 'em even ran quali' brakes, tiny fuel tanks and even empty fire-bottles at one point.....] OK, so what? I assume when the taxicabs go to injection (next season?) they'll have the same type of flow-limits as F1, at least on the restrictor-plate tracks. Except, in F1's case, it's being done to force efficiency rather than restrict power..... [Incidentally, this could also be called a limit on fuel capacity - Given race length and fuel-flow #'s max fuel load is easily calculated. So, it amounts to an "xx gallons per race rule ] Possibly - However, these diffusers are responsible for much of the dirty air they complain of today, not the wings. I don't know how much difference it would make toward the (supposed) holy grail of "more overtaking" is my point. Overtaking is *hard* in F1 - It's always been that way, and I for one hope it always will be. Wanna watch overtaking? Formula Ford is pretty good value Cheers, Ian
Fuel limit and fuel flow limit aren't quite the same. With the former, you can drive tacticly and save fuel for the last part of a race, regardless. With the later you can't, your engine is 'choked'. Fuel limit formulae end up being 'economy runs' (i.e. group C with the 962 Porsche).
I like the idea of a small engine with MASSIVE boost. The turbo era was fantastic! If I am correct, a restrictor plate acts on the air flow, not the fuel. Why limit the air flow? Air is free, not pollutant, etc... It's fuel efficiency that's the real challenge for engineers.
Agreed, fair comments. OTOH, if the fuel limit is high enough, economy runs shouldn't be required - Give 'em lots in, say, 2013, then reduce it by, say, 10% every couple of years.... "Look at the way we're pushing efficiency!", "See how efficient we can make our engines!", "Look at our KERS boxes!", blah blah........ Cheers, Ian
After listening to this, I say bring back the V10's. Part of F1 is the sound. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQLty2Vc2Bs&feature=related
I'm quite happy with drastic changes a la turbo and ground effect cars: As long as the changes are radical, that's the key point as it will give the designers new playing fields and ways to find loop holes. Tossing up the chicken in the barn once in a while is good for the show.
If they were doing this for technology's sake, I would agree with it, but if it is only being done to pander to what is a very tiny percentage of the F1 audience I most definitely disagree with it.
Mmmm... I'm not sure I'd say 4 cylinders are necessarily "really gay", after all, BMW's last 4 cylinder F1 engine was anything but gay with a peak of 1BHP per 1cc, or in layman's terms 1500BHP from 1500cc in qualifying trim! and @ 1300 peak in race trim (and all from a production car based block!!!). However: +1 big time, let the engineering boys play!. I would say it's a 75% / 25% split in favour of the former. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Smaller capacity Turbo engines are the future when it come to road cars with all the ever tighter emission regulations and so F1 is trying to pre-empt the change and learn valuable lessons that could help manufacturers. The days of the big, normally aspirated V8's & V12's are numbered (sadly ), even in the USA! (where, I believe, they will be the last bastion of the V8's due to the history of that engine there but they'll gradually become smaller capacity and possibly turbo'd before they disappear). Sacrilege I know, but one day even NASCAR will be running with smaller V6 turbo's!, mark My words! (and look out for My obituary having been burnt at the stake for suggesting it!).
The power is impressive indeed, but as said above, part of F1 is the sound. A 4 cilinder just doesn't sound good. I almost never watch GP3 for this reason (turbocharged 4 cilinders). I'm aware that they don't rev as high as the F1 car would, but it just sounds a bit gay. V10s and V12s sound amazing OTOH...
I was working with Cosworth on energy recovery techniques for the 2013 engines until this weekend. We were working on getting maximum power from a fixed fuel flow limit which will probably be imposed.
Apart from the fact that disparaging something by calling it "gay" is completely uncool these days, may I remind you that the the most resounding pages of motor racing history were written by 4-cylinder Offenhauser engines, turbocharged towards the end, that dominated Indianapolis for over 4 decades! This sound addiction is all in the mind: I for one would welcome motor racing being less noisy.
Well, that's very good news. Looks like common sense finaly prevails. I have been waiting for such formula for several decades! It would make the imposition of the 4-cylinder configuration obsolete, unless it is adopted on cost ground, of course.
