Group Buy: QA1 Coil-over Shock Bushings

I've been following some of the discussion about suspension upgrades with considerable interest. My criteria:
(1) 95% street
(2) bolt on solution
(3) ride height and corner balance adjustability

Seems that there are some relatively cost effective solutions for coilover replacements:

(1) QA-1 --> consensus solution?
(2) Varishock --> design/build issues? (greg328)
(3) Threaded Koni rebuilds from Carobu --> anyone running these?
(4) ??? from Nick's Forza Ferrari --> not QA-1 or HAL; 80 sets on the road, any feedback?

What's the right answer?

 

Please sign me up for a full set of the qa1 unobtaium bushings. That will
be one step closer for the Qa1 shocks out of the box and installed.
Thanks

 

Rick,
Let me say that Varishock is a fine product. My 4 must have been a bad batch--they all leaked soon after initial install. I removed and shipped to manufacturer to be rebuilt under warranty. They have since been fault-free.

Mine are 16-way adjustable for jounce, no rebound adjust on mine.
Pretty economical too..

Greg

 

OK,
I have a group buy price based on at least 5 sets being ordered, & 50% deposits received in the next few days, plus a couple of sets that I'm putting into Unobtainium Supply inventory:

$127.72 + shipping/4-wheel set.

Deposit is: $65

I'll take PayPal, MO, personal check. Heck, I'll even take cash! To place your order, please send eMAIL with your shipping address & Phone#:

TO: [email protected]
SUBJ: ORDER: QA-1 Shock Bushings

I'll respond with Unobtainium's address.

If you use PayPal, just use that eMAIL address as the payee & include the other info in the comments field.

Here's what I understand is the current list of people ordering bushing sets:


Nomdeplum Name

QA-1 Bushings: 5 4-wheel sets
dwil Dave Wilson
masonfamily04 Bill
Matteo Heir Butt
Owens84QV Greg Owens
walawdog Anthony

Varishock:
Greg328 Greg Giacona[1]


[1]Greg, I don't think we have a bushing for you.

The 308 thru bolt is 12mm/0.47" diameter. The Varishock thru-hole is 12.7mm/0.5". A sleeve bushing's wall thickness would only be 0.35mm/0.013". That's really too thin to try to turn on a lathe.

Mike Charness's thread indicates that the Varishock is available with a 7/16" ferrule (aka sleeve bushing) that can be easily reamed out to 12mm by almost any machine shop. See:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42584&highlight=varishock

Can your 1/2" ID ferrules be pushed out of the bushing by hand?

If so, your best bet would be to see if Varishock would make you up some 45.7mm/1.8" long, 12mm min. ID ferrules.

If not, your next best bet would be to see if you can get 7/16" ferrules that are 1.8" long, or else std lenght 7/16" ferrules.

Alternatively, exchange your Varishocks with ones with 7/16" ferrules that can be reamed out to 12mm.

We may be able to do the reaming for you. Once you know which way you're going, contact us & we'll see if we can do it & give you a price.

Std. length isn't too bad:
The Varishock bushing is 1.5" wide, the 308 bushings are 45.7mm/1.8" wide, so there's 0.300" difference. You can use std 1/2" thru-hole washers make up the difference & center your Varishock ferrule on the thru-bolt.

 

There may be no 'right' answer, only differences. Nick's with 300 lbs front and 250 lbs rear are fine for street and some light track. i found i was dialing up the shock too much for track and decided to go with 400 lbs front and 350 lbs rear, but that is being done now so i have no real experience with the difference. If you get Nick's shocks, you might ask him to have the springs done 1/2-inch LESS than usual as we had them at their lowermost and they were still a tad high IMHO. This is in regards to high for the lowest we could go with the car. So it also depends just how low you want the car, but even with 1/2-inch less length in the springs you should have plenty of room to raise the car with the given threading on the shocks. i just think Nick supplies them 1/2-inch too much, perhaps even an full inch.

Of interesting note is that Nick's shocks are DUAL adjustable (6 settings for compression, 11 rebound). So you can dial in a lot of different things.

 

Verell,
i went with the smaller (7/16"?) ferrule from Varishock, and had them reamed out to 12mm, so I do have a snug fit on the thru bolt.

Because I now have essentially the same ferrule as the QA-1s, will that allow me to use your QA-1 spacers? Or are my shock heads a different width than the QA-1s?

What is the exact width of these spacers you are making? According to your last post, I'll need to continue using washers to make up any difference? I was hoping to do away with them forever by getting your custom-fabbed spacers. How hard would it be to make a set specific to my needs?

Greg

 

That should be fine. Your earlier post said 1/2" thru-hole which is too loose. The bolt is 12mm max OD.

Your ferrule is 1.5" long, so needs spacers to extend the ends. The QA-1 bushing (aka ferrule) is 3/4" diameter, 1.8" long, so it's an exact fit for the 308 brackets.

We changed the QA-1 design.

See the picture in the link in my previous post based on QA-1 Tech support's recommendations. It now uses clip rings & 0.030" thick washer like SS shims, 3/4" ID to center the shock between the clip rings.

We could make you up a set of 16 spacers. They'd be basicly washers 0.150" thick, 12mm ID, & the diameter of either your ferrule or black bushing. Red or black powdercoat, or finish to match your ferrule would be an option. Would have to get back to you on price once we know those details.

 

OK,
I've got eMAIL from DWil & Owens84QV. Are the rest of you still in?

 

Verell,

So QA-1 shocks fit snug on the frame brackets? (in your last post..) Then I'm confused. Aren't you talking about spacers to make up the gap difference
at the shock mount?

I'm definitely in. I'm going to take measurements today on my specific car/parts/brackets and let you know exactly what my needs will be. I'll post tonight.

Thanks,
Greg
77 308 GTB

 

Greg,
Go look at the QA-1 Bushing pictures in this thread:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62728
QA-1s come with a urethane thru-hole bushing. It's 1.25" wide, & the hole ID is 0.750" We supplied a metal bushing that slides into the urethane bushing (like your ferrules). By design, he metal bushing is 1.8" long, the correct length for 308 shock brackets.The metal bushing has C-clip grooves to center the QA-1 urethane bushing on it, with washers to adjust for variations in the poly bushing's width.

 

Verell,
OK, now I'm getting what you're doing (I think!)

You supplying a new, longer ferrule, to fill out the width of the shock mount ears.

I thought you were actually fabbing up thick washers/spacers like Mike Charness had made up, to fill in the gaps; they'd slide over the mount bolt. Instead, you're making the ferrule extend all the way to each shock mount ear. Is this correct?

I haven't thought about replacing my ferrules with longer ones, but I guess I could do it. I know I busted my butt reaming out the SAE Varishock- supplied ones to 12mm! I have to remove the shocks anyway to do this, so I could tap in new ferrules..

One concern would be the robustness of the thin ferrule, against the shock ear. Looks pretty thin--may give under hard lateral force....

Am I on the right track? Do you need me to give you the width of my poly bushings, in order to etch the groove for the clip washer? Do you also need to know the diameter of the hole in my poly bushing? That could be tricky to measure while on the car....

Greg

 

I suggested spacers like Mike C's in my preceding post:

I think the Mike C. like spacers are probably the most economical solution, They're technically challenging as they require the spacer thickness to be precisely controlled as they are in the path of the bracket clamping force.

If we go this way, the only dimensions we need is the poly bushing's outside diameter so the spacers can be similarly sized, & the mfg. tolerence on the ferrule's length so we can calculate the washer thickness & tolerence on that thickness. We know the ferrule's nominal length, the spacer's ID is 12mm min. The spacers can be Al be cause they're not in the main load carrying path.

That's correct for the QA-1s.

I don't think your ferrule has thick enough walls for a C-clip groove.

The other alternative would be an extended length steel ferrule, with spacers that slide over it as in Atlantaman's QA1 bushing shown in this thread:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57630&highlight=adapter

This has the advantage that only the ferrule's length needs to be tightly controlled, the spacer washers don't have to have super tight thickness control.

 

I've received deposits or full payment for 4 sets, & am awaiting walawdog's deposit, that'll make it 5 sets which gets us the group buy price.

If anyone else wants to join in, please get your deposit to me ASAP( see earlier post in this thread for details). I'd like to place the machining order & order circlips, washers, etc. by this Thursday.

Once the order is placed & I find out where we are in the queue, I can tell you when to Iexpect to ship them to you.

Greg,
Still need dimensions & a decision as to how you want to go (see the last couple of posts) before I can give you a price.

 

Greg328, not Greg Owens, sorry about confusion.

 

Bump,
Signup ends tomorrow. Need to have your deposit, or your word that 'the check is in the mail' by midnight.

Group Buy Price: $127.72 + shipping/4-wheel set.

Deposit is: $65

I'll take PayPal, MO, personal check. Heck, I'll even take cash!

To use PayPal, just use the above eMAIL address as the payee for 'GOODS, non-auction' & include your address, etc. in the comments field.

To place your order by check, etc, please send eMAIL with your shipping address & Phone#:

TO: [email protected]
SUBJ: ORDER: QA-1 Shock Bushings

I'll respond with Unobtainium's mail address for you to send the deposit to.

 

Not to worry, already rcv'd the 5th payment, so all is go!

Should have estimated ship date early next week.

 

Anyone want to jump in at the last minuite?

 

Verell,
Still not sure if this applies to me. Not clear on exactly what the bushing is, and if it would apply to my Varishock application.

I've reamed my ferrules to 12mm, and they fit over the bolt fine. There was a gap between the mount ears, so I stuck a few large Home Depot washers in there. Not pretty, but they work.

How will your product improve upon my setup?

Greg
1977 308 GTB

 

The QA-1 system isn't really applicable to you, & the group buy price wouldn't apply since a kit for you would be quite different, hence require special setup & design work.

However, several posts down in this threa you said you wanted to get rid of the home depot washers & we discussed my supplying ferrules the correct length for the 3x8s with spacers that slipped over the ferrules & kept the shock centered on them. I thought you were going to get me the dimensions I asked for in that post.

The only technical difference between the longer ferrule vs the current ferrule & washers you're using is that the longer ferrule would do a better job of transferring the force from the shocks to the mounting bracket, hence would be less likely to bend the thru bolt. I have no way of knowing if this is a significant issue or not.

If you go to remove your thru-bolts & find that they're noticably bowed, or if one of them breaks then you'll know it was significant.

Not saying that this will happen, just that if it does you'll know why & what to do about it.

If you're no longer inteested, that's OK, just say so.

 

Verell,
OK, as I examine the rear upper shock mounts, I MIGHT detect a VERY SLIGHT bowing of the mount bolt. It may just be the deflection of the poly bushing within the upper shock head, creating the illusion.
I only have 2 washers per side of the shock head, so we're not talking about a great distance here. Is that really enough "lack of support" to cause the bolt to bend a bit? How much strength would a longer ferrule, coupled w/hard bushings, lend to the picture?
I guess I could order from you a set of 8 full-length ferrules, 12mm I.D.,
and 16 spacers equal to the thickness of 2 washers, approximately 3/16" (4.75mm). Are all 8 shock mount ears on the 308 the same width? If so, then the above info is sufficient.
I can't get my car on a lift right now, so I need to rely on your knowledge.
I'm unable to get a measurement on the O.D. of the ferrule--is this a common standard?

Greg
77 308

 

My opinion: For the Varishock setup, since they have a much more robust head (Koni style) than the QA1 shocks, as long as you have the inside ferrule reamed properly to 12mm, it doesn't matter whether you use custom machined spacers (as I did) or just the proper combination of a couple of washers. You're just trying to "fill in" the space since the shock heads are slightly narrower than the original Koni shocks.
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