Group Buy: QA1 Coil-over Shock Bushings

Mike,
Thanks for your opinion. Very valued.

We have the same shocks, and I tent to lean towards your opinion--there just is not a very big gap on either side of the shock head-only 3/16" or so!

And yes, I reamed out the ferrules to exactly 12mm--snug fit on the bolt.

Verell--what do you think?

Greg

 

The washers or machined spacers should work fine for the steel ears on the front and the rear top shock mounts if they are close, but if there is even 1/32nd of an inch side clearance on the rear lower mounts, it is possible that tightening the rear lower shock mount bolt may crack or break the casting ears. I do not know how much bolt torque it would take to break the casting. Leaving the bolt a bit loose to avoid breaking the casting is not a good idea either, for obvious reasons.

IMHO, you need a solid sleeve to enable proper tightening of the bolt. The Unobtanium parts fit fine and solve this critical issue.

hth,
chris

 

greg328,
I strongly agree with chrismorse that the end result must be a very snug fit between the mount ears or you risk cracking the mount.

Regarding my concern about possibly bending the bolt, I can stay with my prior statements. It's the only tech area with using the standard bushind that I have a concern about, and I admit that I don't know enough to assess the risk.

3/16" on each side isn't a lot of space, but we're talking about some pretty significant forces here. Consider what happens when you hit a sudden bump & the shock has to absorb the jolt. This can be an instantaneous impact force of many hundreds of pounds that the bolt has to withstand w/o bending enough to reach it's elastic limit.

MikeC,
I don't have the experience with the Varishocks that you have. I'll be comfortable with the washer/spacers on the bolt approach after you (or someone) have got some miles on the system (which I suspect you already have), pulled a couple of the bolts & verified that they're straight (which there's a good chance that they will be, but until them I am going to continue being cautious).


Also, since I don't have the OD of the Varishock bushing (aka ferrule) I don't know how thick it's walls are, so can't assess how much they'd back up the bolt.

eg: If the bushings walls are only 1/16" or so thick, then full length ones won't add much support to the bolt over the std length ones(which also won't be of significant value). But if the walls are ~1/8" or more thick then they aren't going to flex at all, & longer ones would be the best solution.

 

I had about 1500 miles on the rears (including about 150 miles of track) before I pulled them to change the springs, and there was no bending of the bolts. I've got about 3500 miles on the shocks now, and next week the fronts are coming off for a spring change (from QA1's to Eibachs) so we'll see...

 

GREAT!
Sounds like I'm probably overly cautious, but it'll be great to know for sure. The front ones are the most likely to have had hard knocks, so if they're OK, I'll drop my concerns about using washers/spacers.

While you've got it apart, can you measure the ferrules OD & ID, also width & diameter of the shock heads. I'd still like to develop a full width bushing & spacers systemfor those who want use Varishocks on 308s.

 

Verell,
Good points. I can confirm that I was able to "fill the gaps completely at all mount points, with the washers. There's no slack. If memory serves, the ferrules were pretty sturdy, didn't seem flimsy or weak at all. Varishock provided nice hardware. (Of course, I drilled out part of that thickness to get to 12mm, but they were still sturdy....)

I'd like to know more about Mike C's findings at all shock mount points, as we have the same set-up, except he has custom spacers....

Greg

 

Sure, I'll be glad to. I do know that the urethane in the head is 1.25" wide... to make my spacers, I just took the difference between that and the original Koni head bushing measurement.

Of course, we replaced the 1/2" ID ferrules with the different size.
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We'd expected to get the bushings run off next week. However, We just ran into a situation with the machine shop that we've been working with. They've changed some policies since we last priced them making the bushings.

It's unclear if we'll be able to resolve the issues in a reasonable amount of time, and is also unclear if we'd get them at the price we were expecting. So we're taking the drawing to several other machine shops for quotes.

Unfortunately, this is going to delay delivery. Will post an update as soon as we learn something.

 

Below is what I measured now that the shocks are off for the new springs. The bolts showed no bending -- but there's a lot of poly around the ferrules to take any of that force, unlike yours spherical-eye QA1's.
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Have the drawing at 3 places for quote. Hope to get quotes back by the end of this week so can select 1 & place the order.

Need your input:
One of the shops quoting can't deliver until week ending 10-MARCH due to current work. However, it's likely to have the best price. Can you live with delivery in March?


I don't have dates/lead time from the other shops yet. Suspect 1 can give 1 week turn-around at a price.

The shop we were planning to use had a lot of SS tube left over from a prev. project & gave us a really good price based on using it. At least 2 of the shops will have to buy the SS tubing. So, don't know how close the quotes will be to what I based the group buy price on.

I apologise for this uncertainty, but there just was no hint that anything was changing with the shop we'd been using.

 

I would still like a set for the frunt and rear.

 

March is ok with me. I will be working on the 308 this summer if
I am lucky!

 

GOOD NEWS:
Have a quote from our own Paul Hill. Privce/bushing is the same for either SS or yellow zinc. It also looks pretty close to what I'm expecting from the local shops. But, the cost of shipping & estimated customs duties really hurts.

Bottom line: Going Paul's quote would add about $32.00 to the price of a 4-wheel set.

Remember, that we were getting a real bargain on the bushings because the original shop had leftover SS stock & also we were getting a big discount on the machining labor cost.

MEA CULPA:
Also, I just discovered I blew the group buy price calculation:

When I plugged the new bushing quote into the spreadsheet I've been using to cost out the group buy, the price/4-wheel set for the SS hardware didn't look right.

After some head scratching, I discovered that I'd only added the cost of 2 SS circlips @ $0.48/clip & 2 SS washers @ $1.16/washer = $3.27 to the cost of the 16 bushings, etc.

I should have added $83.13 = 16 x (2 circlips @ $046 ea + 6 washers @ 1.16 ea) to the bushing cost. Thus the 4-wheel set group buy price was $79.86 low for SS hardware.

Early Alzheimers I guess

There are a couple of options:
1) A $79.86 price increase for all SS hardware in addition to whatever re-sourcing the bushings adds.

2) No price increase for HW for yellow zinc clips, & steel washers beyond any increase for re-sourcing the bushings.

BTW, I didn't have any luck finding plated washers with 3/4" ID,1" OD. Most 3/4" ID washers are 1.25" to 2" OD.

I'm terribly embarassed about this.

 

If we go with the hill eng. parts & SS washers the new price would be:

127 Orig. price
~80 for ss hw
~30 for resourcing from Hill Eng.
---------
237.00

I don't think I mentioned it earlier, but the group price does include shipping, tracking, & insurance, so that would be your bottom line.

 

Spoke with one of the local shops, The minimum length of thick-wall SS tubing they'd have to buy is large enough so that they're looking into drilling & reaming 3/4" SS rod. They indicated they couldn't match the price the buy was based on, & promised a price Monday. Now, I'm less sure they'll come under Paul's quote.

 

Just met with the owner of the other shop.
His price is $4/set higher than Hill Eng.

Does anyone know how to get an official answer on what the import dutiy would be? A $1/bushing would go straight to the bottom line.


I know the duties on bearings of any kind are phenomenal.

 

I want to place the order as soon as I find out the price from the last shop. Right now it looks like it's going to be $30, but if the last shop comes in lower, I'll pass the lower price along.

I've emailed/PM'd everyone that I haven't heard from asking them to confirm that they're cool with the price increase due to having to find another machine shop, and asking if they want stainless steel (SS) hdw. The new prices are:

need to know if you want Stainless Steel:,
127 Orig. price
~80 for ss hw
~30 for resourcing from new machine shop.
---------
237.00

or std steel hardware:

127 Orig. price
~30 for resourcing from new machine shop.
---------
157.00

 

Verell,
SS is ok at the higher price, std. steel is ok at the lower price. I will
just go along with whatever the majority of the group buy is ok with.
Whatever it is will be better than I would have came up on my own,
which probably would have been aluminum made on my little lathe.
Either option will save me time, be more durable and likely better fit.
I really appreciate you organizing this. I will stay tuned to this thread
to find which way it is decided to go. I am ok with either one.

 

dwil, Owens84QV:
Thanks for the response. So far there are 3 customers asking for SS hardware.

Keep your fingers crossed, Hill Eng. buys SS fasteners in large quantities & gets substantial discounts. Paul is looking to see what he can do. Again, shipping costs across the pond & import duties could offset the discounts.

I'm going to contact my FedEx rep & see if they can help estimate the shipping duties.

 

OK,
1) I've heard from everyone, 100% said SS is OK.

2) Got the last quote, was $9.78/sleeve! So they're out of the picture. The runner-up local shop asked for a chance to beat the low bid, so will revisit them 1 more time tomorrow.

Just got the import duty for FedEx, it's 2.5% for 'Automobile Parts for Suspension Systems". I was guesstimating it was 5%, so that reduces the $80 to $78. Not a big savings, but I we can stop worrying about getting hit with a whopping import fee.

3) Paul Hill gave me a lead on SS clips that may reduce the price a small amount. So far no luck on cutting the price of the SS washers.

I'll look around a bit more, & place the orders late this week. Sorry this is taking so long.