Group Buy: QA1 Coil-over Shock Bushings

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Owens84QV, Dec 24, 2005.

  1. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    Verell,

    I don't think I ever replied to this but I got the bushing and they are WAY better than the ones I had made up. I installed them and they fit perfectly. My rear shocks had a different style shock ear but the bushings still fit. I wasn't able to use the clips as the poly on these was wider but a washer on each side and it slid right into place. I'll have to re-do the fronts next time I have the wheels off.

    Thanks again!!
    John
     
  2. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Several people have been begging me to supply bushings,
    so I just went out on a limb & had another order of bushings made up.
    I'm counting on more people wanting to upgrade their suspension to QA1s.
    My cost is up, but I'm going to eat the increase for now. I've received the bushings,
    & the washers & the C-Clips should be here in a few days.

    The price is still:

    $160.27 = $148.32/4-wheel set + $11.95 shipping & insurance.


    Please send PayPal to: Orders@UnobtainiumSupply.com
    PayPal category: Goods (non-auction)
    SUBJECT: ORDER: 4-wheel set QA-1 Bushings

    Make sure you include:
    address to ship them to,
    & a phone # for the shipping. co.
     
  3. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    The C-Clips finally arrived, I can now ship to order.
     
  4. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie
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    Looking at QA1 pics on Summit site, it looks like there's a bronze bushing in the end eye . .. the new sleeves insert into these? For some reason I thought these shocks had heim joints on the end eyes . . . I guess not.


    Thanks,


    Sean
     
  5. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
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    Depends which model you order. You want the one with the standard shock eye. They have a polyurethane bushing in them, and Verell's bushing goes inside the poly bushing.

    Birdman
     
  6. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie
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    Is this the difference with the "P" vs "B" designation? If using V's bushings is not a concern, wouldn't the heim joint setup be more desirable?

    Thanks,

    Sean
     
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  8. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Was just discussing them with someone today & wrote this up. I bought my QA1s with heim joints because & I wanted to evaluate them & knew I could always press in the poly bushings. After looking at the heim joints a bit & sketching out what it would take adapt them to 3x8s, I decided they didn't have any particular advantage in this application & had potential disadvantages.

    NO ADVANTAGE:
    Heim joints are useful where you need a wide range of motion, often involving rotational/pivoting movement in more than one axis. The 3x8 suspension was designed for the Konis, thus the only mounting eye motion is along the shock axis normal to the thru-bolt/bushing, and a slight rotation around the thru-bolt's axis as the shock compresses. The adapter bushings & poly eyes adequately supply this motion.

    Also, heim joints are more rigid, the poly eyes provide a level of shock/vibration isolation that a heim joint would transfer to the frame.

    DISADVANTAGE: The QA1 Heim joint thru-hole options are either 1/2" ID, or 5/8" ID. So the wall thickness of the 5/8" OD thru bushing would have to be sufficiently thin that it wouldn't offer much support to the thru-bolt, also, the heim joint concentrates the shock's force along a narrower area than the poly bushing does. This thru-force is concentrated in the center of the bushing/thru-bolt. The 1/2" ID Heim joint has a 2nd disadvantage: The thru-bushing would be so thin that it could be crushed when the thru bolt is torqued down, potentially damaging the mount. Remember last year an Fchatter broke the lower shock mount & had to replace his rear hub, he wasn't using QA1s, but the same could happen with a weak mounting bushing.

    The heavy walled bushing I supply to mount the poly bushing eyes is sufficiently rigid that it reinforces the thru-bolt by strongly resisting bending in the middle, and also is plenty strong to resist being crushed by the thru-bolt. I suspect you'd break or strip the thru-bolt before you could crush the bushing and damage the mounting ears.
     
  9. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
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    Good points Verell, I thought about the Heim joint shock mount because it is what "real racers" use to get that last 1/1000th percent out of the suspension - BUT - it is harder on the mounts, the shocks and the driver, to what purpose??? The 308 is a 3000 pound GT car, (Gran Turismo), not a full on track car and a little compliance is a good thing.

    FWIW, I had a close friend pass on, some time ago, and Verelly busted his butt to get the first set of shock bushings done so I could get on the road to say good buy to an old dear friend. It is stuff like that, that you remember.

    My .01,
    chris
     
  10. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Tis the 'get ready for driving season' season & people are PMing me asking if it's too late to get bushings. Answer is NO, it's not too late, see post #127 for ordering info.
     
  11. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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  12. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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  13. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie
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    Don't think this is quite right . .. with the hiem joints if the spacers are designed and machined properly they will shoulder on the outside of the heim joint so the thin wall you're referring to is a non issue. Each end of the shock will have 2 bushings . . each with a "hat" that takes up the gap and is under compression . . .different than the urethane bushings which would compress until the small dia in the middle touch which is what you're concerned about.

    I'm thinking about this again since 2 of my QA1's have failed after 4 months and the "thunder" shocks all have heim joints in the ends.
     
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  15. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula Junior
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    Please tell us more ? What kind of failier ?
    Have you ever driven a formular /race car that's done a few seasons. It's like a rattle trap delux the rose joints ( Heim joint I'm assuming it's the same thing "rod end ") all have a bit of play in them and it sounds like hell . Still handle like a dream as there is less play/flex in the joint than a rubber joint ,just hell out noisy and harsh . So for a road car the urethane bushings have to be the way to go ,they provide the isolation and remove the metal to metal contact
     
  16. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie
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    Installed 12/07 with 375/325 front/rear spring . . . Right rear is mushy and I can see oil leaked out . . .both set @5

    Front left is mushy . .. both set @9

    Only reason I'm thinking heim is that's what all the higher end shocks have . .. guess I could put urethane bushings in those if heim joints are that horrible.

    I'm gonna buy another set of the cheap QA1's while they fix/analyze these . .. if that set lasts a year then fine but I just figured for the money they were probably not well suited for track . . . QA1 has a "proper" road race shock available . .. I don't mind paying for the best when "good" isn't good enough :).
     
  17. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie
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    #140 luckydynes, Apr 20, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    One pic is what I think is oil that's come out of the rear shock. .. not much but the she's definitely not dampening like the other side . . .no visible leaks on the front.

    Other pic's show witness mark from axles hitting frame . .. the bigger imprint is the driver side which still has the good shock. I posted in another thread be good to but bump stops on the shocks perhaps like the Konis have. There's also a witness mark from the CV boots hitting the underside of the control arm.
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  18. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula Junior
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    You are quite right in saying that high end shocks have "heim joints " .If you look at the F360 the top of the shock has spherical bearing with a cross mount that is then Isolated from the chassis ,so removing the direct contact with the chassis .
    Interesting about the shocks possibly the track time has taken it's toll ! Not to knock the QA1's for there price I think they offer good value . I am busy looking at what Ohlin has to offer for sure they are more expensive .
     
  19. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie
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    Interesting observation on the 360.

    I'm gonna give qa1 a call and be up front with what's going on and see what they're like.

    Ohlins rock . . . definitely another one to consider.
     
  20. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie
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    QA1 has a rebuilder in No Cal but won't sell parts to me for these shocks . .. I'll see if I can twist the rebuilders arm.

    I told them I tracked the car and the tech guy figured the shocks should be fine . .. I was happy to hear that :).

    Sean
     
  21. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie
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    My QA-1's arrived today. Now you've got me worried :-(
     
  22. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie
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    Well if you don't mind rebuilding them every few months no worries ;) . .. I just spoke to the repair shop and he'll sell all the parts for DIY'er. $45-$50 to rebuild them if you send them to him as long as nothing internal is broken . . . seems like they have authorized repair stations all over. He said you can't revalve them . .. I'll be the final word on that :).


    He commented that street cars go 10k-70k miles. For the price I'll stick with 'em . .. . now I've got something else to take apart and analyze plus parts are available :). Doing a little research seems like the more expensive shocks need fairly frequent service also . .. maybe that only applies on a dedicated track car though.

    I want to buy a couple spares to swap while I pull the failed models apart . .. hate it when she's stuck on the lift :(.
     
  23. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie
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    Sure wish I'd known that before I bought them. I'm sure they're not hard to rebuild but 10~70 miles is unacceptable to me especially for street use. I mean to say the range is unacceptable to me. I would feel better if he had said 10~20K miles. It seems like there's a lack of quality control or the manufacturing tolerances are not tight. Hell, I could live with rebuilding them every 20,000 miles but that spread of 10 to 70 really doesn't give me a warm cuddly feeling. I don't imagine they mention such numbers in their ads. I understand the weight of the car you have will affect the life, the stiffness setting, the spring rate you have etc. but still....

    Well, I hope you're able to do an autopsy on yours and come up with some better quality internal parts. Sounds like you'd be just the guy to do it :)
     
  24. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie
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    Really didn't mean to turn you off . . . I think the 10k was probably the very extreme street scenario i.e. me . .. .

    I'm sure it's a function of having the setting on 12 or 5 to get the ride your looking for . . .although I did only have the rear shock on 5 . .. the seal/by pass device will see way more stress at higher settings thus be more likely to fail.

    At the price you can't go wrong . .. there's not a lot of options out there and many others have had no issues . .. I'm doing research . .. I have a secret agenda :).
     
  25. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie
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    Yeah okay, but then I think I would have felt better if all four were leaking at the same time. Maybe the other two aren't far off from that point but who knows. I can see the valve/seals have more stress at stiffer settings but wouldn't you also be getting more wear at a soft setting (more piston movement and resulting heat generated)?
     
  26. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Sean is into serious autocross competition, and is running full race tires, ie: is definitely an extreme use case, he'll admit to that. Another example: Sean is one of the very few people whose control arms have developed cracks from the stress being put on them. This indicates he's exceeding the 308 suspension's design limits!

    If you search for QA1 and QA-1 in the current & old fchat you'll see that they've been being used for the last 6 or 7 years and have been quite reliable.

    I suspect Sean'd right it was more likely high peak pressure due to using the high setting w/very aggressive driving more than heat buildup.
     
  27. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    OK, OK, I've been listening to you. I just had another order of bushings made up. I twisted my suppliers arms & this time I was able to get the same prices as my last buy, so the price is still:

    $160.27 = $148.32/4-wheel set + $11.95 shipping & insurance.


    Please send PayPal to: Orders@UnobtainiumSupply.com
    PayPal category: Goods (non-auction)
    SUBJECT: ORDER: 4-wheel set QA-1 Bushings

    Make sure you include:
    address to ship them to,
    & a phone # for the shipping. co.

    BTW, you probably want to consider PaperWeights as well, see:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142079
     

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