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GT 350 on track

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by boxerman, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Any Gt350 owners here.
    How is the car on track, is it durable, whats things like pad and tire life like, i know its driver and track dpendat, but compared to other cars you have run?.
    Any major issues.
    Any upgrades necessary?
    Would you recomend one.
     
  2. BJK

    BJK Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2014
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    You really need to do some basic research. Try Googling 'GT350 oil pump failure' just to start. Then search YouTube vids.
     
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  3. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Seems like more than a few blown motors, replaced by ford. Which would imply a used one out of warrantly could be a ticking time bomb.
    From research it also seems that mnay may not be doing extensive warmups before hitting it, and or drag racing.
    Going furtehr there are more than a few anecdotes that ford dealers are the pits when it comes to servicing and even delivering these cars, things lie splitters braking off because they were not installed properly at the dealer, shipping shims still left on springs etc.

    the 19 models seem "improved" although not much tosay aboput reliability yet.
    As with some otehr cars, there seems to be a pretty avid track comuntiy and some details worked out.
    Rotors seem to last not more than 20 days amd pads 5 days, or more agressive pads may lat longer but rotor life shortened too.
    Tires are 3-4 days max, and thata few as in 3 short de cycles per day. The porche michelin cup spec tires seem to last longer more like 4 days.
    The cars seem to be able to get down to 2.11 at the Glenn.

    For comparative purposes, my exige does about 5-6 days on set of pads, but more like runnign 2-3 hours per day, and rotors last years. Tires maybe 3 days and about $400 per set less expensive. But i have to run race gas at $10 per gallon so fuel cost maybe double. The exige is at least 5 secs per lap faster and gettign quicker, but needs a trailer to get tot he track.

    So I was thinking of an extra car to just drive to the track for those low impact days, and as a backup, so I get more seat time.. Not sure how much fun the gt350 would be on road in terms of ride. I guess i gotta try one.

    The other choice might be a civic type R, probbaly more my type of car, but the stang has the motor.
    I also see that the old retired guys who bought Gt350's as bucket lists are selling like 2 mile creampuffs for ask of 45k, assuming its not a grenade motor.

    or maybe I should just get a charger scat pack for road driving and get a beater miata for track backup seat time.
     
  4. BJK

    BJK Formula Junior

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    Well, I guess you did a little research. :)
    GT350 weighs almost twice as much as the incredibly light Exige which explains the tire and brake wear.
    There are at least 3 GT350 forums which speaks to it's enthusiastic and popular following. Watch some YouTube driver review vids. They love it, but, like pickup trucks, there are Ford guys and there are Chevy guys.
    Camaro = torque down low (better daily?). GT350 is screaming power up high. Very different. (That flat-plane crank noise tho, damn!!!) My license would be gone in a week.
    There are more than a few anecdotes that Ford and Ferrari and Porsche and ....... dealers are the pits when it comes to servicing. Check reviews and choose wisely.
    I love looking at reviews of the 'best' restaurants and there are ALWAYS a few stinker/disaster reviews among the mostly 5-star experiences. Same with almost any service or product.
    Mustangs and Camaro's are heavy cars. Charger's are on another level H E A V Y.
     
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  5. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Yeah a charger wouldn’t work o track at all.
    Ford dealers seem worse than most though. question is who is a good ford dealer, I wouldn’t mind traveling.

    working on trying out a friends friends gt350 for a quick spin.
    There’s always a used 996 and or the type R. But as you say the motor sound of the gt 350, and they do seem designed for the track, but then do they work on road.
     
  6. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior

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    If you want cheap, reliable fun then you should check out a C5Z. Best track car I have ever owned and more enjoyable than the C6ZR1. The feedback it gives was amazing to me. Anything newer is muted by all the nannies. If you have good abilities you will not be disappointed. Brakes and rotors from Napa. Change the oil and clutch fluid and go have a ball. Those that get real serious will add coil overs and bars then upgrade the brakes. Add a set of headers and a tune and you will hang with a well driven C6Z06. I know first hand.
     
  7. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Get a Z06.
     
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  8. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    I know a C6 z06, but they just dont do it for me. Frankly prefer a 15 z28.
    I have the evige V6 cup as a primary track car, but thats a trailer tot he track car and a while order of magnitude complexity, so this would be an ocasional low impact track car for when the exige is not working(as all track cars do) and more primarily a road car.

    I was even thinking of getting a leftover 19 challenger 5.7 with a stick(28k) as a the daily beater and then spending 10k on miata to drive to the track for an odd day here or there. Thats why a civic Type r seemed to cover the bases.

    But my experience has been very few if any road cars short of a Gt3 or elige really work on track out the box, hence the stang which by all acounts does.

    A used boxter might work too, but I really cant stand them.

    Maybe I just gotta find a road legal e36 or e46 beemer that someone has spent all the $ on for trackability, but then thats another old car that will need lots of care.

    I even thought of a mondial, that could be a cool daily and would still be fun ocasional track use, but those are eitehr beaters which eat, or creampuffs in which case I wouldnt use it..
     
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  9. BJK

    BJK Formula Junior

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    Well, at least you've narrowed it down to 10 or 12.
     
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  10. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    I respect the Mustangs, and their abilities with a good driver. They have too many got ya issues and with the Roebling road racetrack so near me, no one here takes stock Mustangs as serious competition on a track, due to the issues. Z06's need work to perform and last on a track just like a Miata does, but the bones are good and that is what you need to be competitive, safe and not broken in the pits all the time.

    I paid $19k for my C6 and though not a Z06 it too could be made into a fun track machine, with good bones.
     
  11. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior

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    You said you know the C6Z06. I said the C5Z06 is a more fun track car. Even John Heinricy will tell you that. He reigned in the SCCA T1 division along with the C5Z long after the C6 debuted. SCCA had to change the rules to make the C5Z go away several years after the C6. Its that good and its very different from the C6. Plus the C5Z would beat the GT350 and most of the other cars you list. Dare I say your lotus too?
     
  12. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Eric, along with objective factors there are subjective, and the vettes just dont do it for me, been there done that, its the way they steer and ride, the sitting in front of the rear wheels feeling, the bluntness, I no longer enjoy the whole vette schtick. Having had a few SBC 350's and a 383, its probbaly my least favorite V8(I do like the ford 302's and 351's)), but the C6 z06 motor is a GM exception for me. In genral nothign pulls liek a V8 and I do like a slugger(high hp v8) which has its own appeal.

    As to track speed/laptime, from my actual on track experience, a c6 z06 with headers and a few upgrades(brake lines etc) plus brakes and shocks is indeed formidable. But it does not have the laptime of the exige not least because one is still a street legal car(vette) and the other(exige) a pure track car. Plus C6 is just not my thing, although the c7 zr1 as a road car is probably the most desirable road car of this year(subjectively) unless youre spending 500k+.
    In my recent experience, the only street car that has had the legs on the exige on track is a new GT2 RS, and even then it relies on a big track where its straightline speed provides much edge(before the tires go off).

    Now Im 100% sure a C5 can get well below 3000lbs, stiffned with a cage, and the motor can be appreciably amped up, brakes, aero wings etc etc, but then it wouldnt be a street car, but yes it would be fast, seen it, already in that game with the exige.

    Ultimate laptime is not my goal here, rather a fun to drive road compliant street car that can be run on track when the time and need arises, Basicaly a car for track when the exige is down, or I just want some low effort(from me) tracktime. Low effort means I dont have to load up the truck with tools wheels etc, trailer and car. It also needs to be a car that will work on road year round (winter not actively snowing) be ok on highway and reasonably dispoasble(salt). I tend to get overly OCD with some cars and then not want to use them year round, and not driving as the lord intended in winter makes me depressed, its also when roads are most sparse.

    What got me going on this whole multi role thing is a few times I drove my elise to the track and just had a fun low impact day (While the exige is super fast it needs a truck trailer etc,) the elise is street legal but a drag on the highway, its the ultimate backroad car that can work on track. Im doing about 300 highway miles per week and because my son is using my equinox Ive been driving my daughters honda hrv which is souless in extremis. I was hoping for something to split all the differences.

    A cayman Gt4 theoreticaly fits the spec best, but caymans dont do it for me and theyre over 100k.

    Latest thinking is to get a scat pack widebody challenger with manual for road, and a beater spec miata which I can leave at the track over the summer. All in 55k. But I am going to test a Gt350(45k used 2k miles) and a civic type r because maybe one of them will just make me gotta have it.

    Plus Im keeping my powder dry for that mythical mid engined lightish 650hp z06 when it comes one day.
     
  13. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Rookie
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    HPDE instructor for 15 years. Previous Lotus Exige 240S owner (as well as multiple Ferraris, M3's, Porsches--all driven on the track at some point). I stopped teaching a few years ago, as well as doing track driving. Bought a GT350 the beginning of this year. I have not driven my car on the track, but I did do the Gt350 racing school (in Salt Lake) that is included with the purchase of a new car. Drove the living crap out of my GT350 that day. Car is reportedly stock other than a half-cage, 4 points, and camber plates. There was no restriction in terms of bouncing the car off of the rev-limiter, etc. I inspected the pads as well as I could, as well as the tires. I was acknowledged as the fastest person that day. I had no engine issues, no discernible brake pad wear, and no discernible tire wear. And I drove the paint off of this car. This compares to driving my 2008 Cayman S where the pads were gone (literally down to backing place) after two 20 minute sessions--and the tires were about spent as well. The car (at that point) had less than 10K miles and no track days.

    So--are these Shelby's lunching their engines at a much higher than average rate--it would seem so. Whether it is blow-by/lack of oil separators, bad running in lunching the oil control rings, bad oil pump gears--it is hard to know. Do they seem to hold up on the track--based on a single data point my answer is yes--brakes have certainly been way oversized. Is it a heavy pig--should be, but it doesn't feel so on the track. I will say it was most enjoyable car I've driven on the track--comparable to my track prepped M3 (easy to drive but fun, and fast).

    So yes, I'd recommend one.
     
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  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Thank you for the feedback and driving impression. How do you find your car as a street car?
    Did a lot of research on brakes. Seems the stock pads last 5 days on track, which is fine and makes sense.
    More agresive pads last longer but then rotors have a short lifespan, even if theyre not too pricey. One way or another theres brake maintanace to be done at 5 days , which makes sense given the weight and is in line with oyther road cars on track, not a deal breaker.

    Tires, seem to last 3 days and are $1800 but thats not different to say a porche.

    Motors lunching. My theory is people are treating these motor like low reving v8s, lugging them, and probably not letting the oil get really hot before going for that 825o redline, plus theyre doing drag starts.

    Build seems to be a big question mark(could relate to motors too), and in many cases the dealers manage to f-up the car before delivery.
    Seems you need to get a good one.

    Really interested in your impression of this as a road car.

    I also think it will be a future classic.
     
  15. Eric R

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    Before you discount the C5Z I highly recommend you get one somehow for an entire day. Quit thinking it will be similar to the C6. Its not. Just trying to open your mind and save you money. I am pretty sure you would come back with a whole different attitude whether you got one or not. Going back to your original posts about a GT350 then morphing into everything from a civic R to a scat pak with mita for track days you seem to have spanned the spectrum. From my experience, the C5Z is right in the middle of this group and does everything your looking for IMO. Your money though. Best of luck.
     
  16. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Cool, yes my mind is on a merry go round. Some of that is just which cars tug at the heart strings. Plus its winter so I keep thinking what will work now on backroads, highway, and maybe some track days in that order.

    A friend has a C5 z06 he bought new. Its out in lv and we took a ride 6 months ago. I agree they are the vette of choice, esp as you know I like light. But vettes don't tug my heartstrings.
    Ill open my mind and give it another thought.
     
  17. Davesvt2000

    Davesvt2000 Formula Junior

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    Image Unavailable, Please Login Just picked up a 2020 GT350, but it’s already put away for the winter, 35 miles on it.

    The 2019-2020 have improvements to the block and heads, since they are shared with the 2020 GT500

    it is the early 16-18 cars that have had engine issues, motors replaced under warranty. It is truly hit or miss on them. There seems to be a thought that the cars that got babied had engine issues, the ones that got driven hard had no problems.
    Maybe more of a break in issue ???

    remember too that the 16’s do not have the engine trans and diff coolers as standard equipment, that started with the 2017.

    I look forward to open tracking mine next year, as I have with my other mustangs.

    parts are a dime a dozen, great aftermarket support, basic maintenance can be done by yourself, etc.
     
  18. Davesvt2000

    Davesvt2000 Formula Junior

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    Let me also add the past couple of years I’ve run my 2012 Boss 302 Laguna Seca on track.

    every year at Watkins Glen was a guy from Pennsylvania with his 302 LS.

    this past summer he showed up with a new GT350, his first time on track with it.

    we used to run pretty much neck and neck in our run group, advanced, well that first session he was GONE. Damn he was fast. Got back to the paddock and he jumped out with a huge smile and said it was the best mustang he’d ever owned and glad he bought it.

    Pretty much sealed the deal for me to get one.

    plus with the wheel, tire, brake and suspension improvements for 19-20, it makes the car perform even better compared to the 16-18.
     
  19. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior

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    Hey boxer, love him or hate him this was a pretty accurate all around review. Its worth the entertainment value alone if you just like cars in general.
     
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  20. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Funny thing, I was at the honda dealership today looking at a Civic Type R. The manager was taking care of me, he has a current z06 and had a new vette every 3 years. I asked him which one he regretted still not having. Drum roll C5 z06. He then went on to tell me to get one.
     
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  21. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Do you have a good ford dealer to recomend?
     
  22. Davesvt2000

    Davesvt2000 Formula Junior

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    Gervais ford in Ayer Mass

    or

    Acton ford in Acton Mass
     
  23. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Rookie
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    Sorry, just saw this. I love the car, but it has pros and cons on the road. Pros (in no particular order)--the adjustable exhaust is fantastic for mellow or melodious (and to others, probably rude), the two setting Magnaride is fabulous and very compliant, the brakes are awesome (though some would find them touchy), the tranny is a joy to shift, and the precise steering is a joy. The minuses are big as well--there is no big American V8 torque present, the thing tramlines more than anything I have ever driven, the pre-19 stereo sucks, the engine management system hiccups frequently (little sergers or stutters at part throttle or cruise), the tranny likes to jump out of first gear unless you are very deliberate and forceful about getting it completely into first gear, fit/finish is Ford bargain basement, and the car is big (much wider and longer than my '13 C4S, as an example). And then there are givens--the Sync 3 systems works well enough, the climate control system works well, etc.

    What sold it for me is the almost telepathic responsiveness of the steering, and the "horse straining at reins, ready to run" feeling that is always just beneath the surface.
     
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  24. Face76

    Face76 F1 Veteran
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    My 2016 rear bumper has an almost 1/8th inch gap but a blast to drive
     
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  25. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
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    #25 fatbillybob, Dec 1, 2019 at 10:09 AM
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019 at 10:14 AM
    At this time I would not go near a 350GT but that could change. My history is racing in a near stock class in SCCA with Vette C5Z06. As others said the perfect racecar. The only reason I sold it this year was because you can't get new crate motors, you can't get new ls6 blocks, steering racks are on an exchange bassis basically the parts are running out. Parts are all over the place but they are getting more scarce, take longer to find, and the stuff in the aftermarket is less reliable than OEM. It took me 3 engine builds to get a good stock built motor . I like super reliable racecars even at the expense of the fastest car.

    I am currently building a new 2019 mustang GT into my next racecar. Everyone raves about these cars. IMO they suck on track based on my 1 trackday. My GT only option is the performance pack1 supposed to be racy. It is a lumbering pig on track and even the giant brembo won't stop it. My kid's old 328i bmw on runflats is a better track car stock with zero racy stuff on it. Yes the GT is not a 350GT but the chassis is the same. The motor is not far off. The biggest difference I can find is the shock and springs and rollbars are different. Lots of GT guys get 350GT handling by putting 350GT suspension in and then some cheap power adders to make 350gt performance.

    Here are some lame Mustang GT things that I'm 95% certain are the same in the 350GT. Ford was too cheap to put a $5 shrader valve on the fuel rail so you have to have special things to do a simple fuel pressure test or bleed fuel for a scrutineer test. I had to buy just under 50 bucks worth of crap to make that simple thing happen. The suspension design sucks! I mean Sucks! GT's and the 350 too use nonadjustable Macpherson front strut. There is no provision for adjusting ride height or corner balancing the car! Performance car? I think not. The rear is a dorky captured spring with a massive heavy lower control arm and all kinds of dory links to keep it in place! The aftermarket has a whole host of dorky parts to replace Ford's total lack of engineering. I will have to put about $6k fully adjustable coilover suspension into my Ford MGT to get to where I was with the Z06 on stock shocks! The vettes all have fully adjustable suspensions stock on the old POS 1997 C5 chassis! Ford lets get into this century! There are SEVEN antennas for the anti-theft or the car will not start. The MGT 6 speed is made in china...enough said. The 10speed auto is brilliant and really does shift like the porsche PDK. That is the single bright spot in the MGT but they did not put a big enough oil cooler in it for the track. The build quality of the MGT is very high. Fit and finish are high and the car is built like the proverbial Brick Sht house. That's why it weights 4000lbs. It has a million airbags and ballistic retractors...very well done. I think the MGT is a great streetcar. The stock car with performance package is a disappointment. There are 2 randy probst you tube videos on the MGT watch them. You can see how the great RP can't control the MGT. This is exactly how the car handles (or doesn't handle) when racers push the MGT. I'm committed to my MGT racecar build so that's life. Oh by the way I only did 3 20min sessions on track at a not brake intensive track willow springs. The michlin 4s whatever tires are chunked and toast and the brake pads got so hot I smeared them all over the big 15" brembo rotors. You need more tire. Racers all run square wide 295-315's but then you need 1" spacers and your scrub radius goes wack. This thing is 1 huge compromise.

    So lets just say the 350gt is 50% better than a GT everywhere. Well IMO that's not enough. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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