News

GT 350 on track

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by boxerman, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. BJK

    BJK Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2014
    577
    CT
    and, so what was you're reason for choosing this pig to try and turn into a track car (which you will probably NEVER be satisfied with)? Why 'cut up' a brand new car? Did someone give you the car? Salvage auction?
    Did you consider a Camaro? (a different color pig ;) ) Or a used Factory Five Cobra, maybe?
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,989
    socal
    Bought it new. It was the only new car that fit in 2 scca classes that required just ballast and restrictor change between races. New car means years of low maintenance. With old car never know what breaks next. Even ourwheels time out banging curbs. So this piece of suckage was the only game in town to run T2 and T1 and maybe be competitive somewhat in either class.
     
    of2worlds, BJK and crinoid like this.
  3. BJK

    BJK Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2014
    577
    CT
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,989
    socal
    For me miatas are just too physically slow but they fit in many classes. You can do a bunch of power adders but then your 2500lb miata is on track with 4000lb viper and 3700lb mustang. When 4000lb hits 2500lbs bad things happen. We are non-contact but have contact all the time. We are always rubbing which is why the vette is the best. The plastic tuperware just bounces right back. metal leaves dents. Every weekend some racer gets his car totaled. It's a numbers game not of my fault I have been taken out 3 times in about 15 years. Amazingly no one gets hurt. Our safety gear is pretty stout.

    I like the new camaro 1LE which would be a great car but I can't see out of it. GM did amazing things and their 10 speed GM put a track ready cooler in it. The camaro 1LE is way better than the mustang GT but the GT is cheaper but the costs to make it as good as the maro negates the price. So if you can see out of it the camaro is the car to get. There is way less to do to get track ready. I don't know if the maro has an adjustable suspension but they had that in the old C5 vette in 1997 so one would expect GM to be at least that good with the maro. Then if you get the ZL1 1LE blah blah blah that super camaro is better than the C7 vette IMO. GM really showed how to make a pig fly. Ford is still trying to figure it out.

    One thing Ford has over GM is you can buy "bodies in white". For about 7k you can buy a mustang chassis without a vin. So when we crash the mustang under some conditions I can be cheaper, faster, better to buy a BIW and transfer race parts to get racing again. I did not start with a BIW because I don't know mustangs. But I'm learning fast. If I can make this car work I might be a happy guy. That's why I said in my 1st post something like I'm not in love with the mustang yet but hope to be. So far I am less than impressed.
     
    of2worlds and BJK like this.
  5. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2007
    65,899
    interesting.

    I was looking at a 2020 5.0 manual last week. no options car so about $35k. was an appealing proposition-cheap V8 manual gearbox decent power with a factory warranty.

    would be mostly a daily driver but would see some track use.

    I think you just saved me $35k :eek:
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,989
    socal
    I’ll know more by late January my 1st race on this chassis. To make a gt barely track capable it’s the cost of the car plus $2k from my research right now. To build a mid pack stock class racecar it’s plus $10k and those are diy prices
     
    of2worlds and GuyIncognito like this.
  7. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    10,466
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean

    Thanks for this viewpoint.
    I looked at C5Z's theyre not too inexpensive now, and then one has to spend to make it a track car, so its looking like a 45K proposition. Theyre probably great collector street cars now. I also take your point, that starting with a new car means lots of little things will work for the first few years. I laready have too many road/track cars that need care.

    The Honda Civic type R. Theres a whole website devoted to those on track. Bottom line if its over 70 degrees and youre running hard it will go inro overheat limp mode within 3 laps. No one seems to have found the cure. Such a car would aggravate the crap out of me, I simply hate BS track cars. Plus the local honda dealers are all still acting as if theyre sitting on gold.

    Interestingly the one similar car that gets great write ups by everyone is the Hyundai Veloster N, although not too much practical track experience there yet.

    The 19 gt350 has lots of revisons thta make it pretty close tot he old R, and Dealers are in the mood to sell 3-4k under stciker. But the ones theyre dealing on all have 4k in worthless options. Dealers still seem not to understand who the customer is.
    As for spec compared to a Gt.
    Its a different 6 speed entirely, not built in china.
    The suspesion layout is probably the same or very similar to a Gt, but there are lots of aluminum castings instead of steel.Its probablky no more adjustable than aGts, noit sure that matters to me for the ocasional trackday, I still have the exige v6 for serious bouts. From what I have read on the net forums the Gt 350 brakes seem to hold up fine with 4-5 day pad life. Yes you do need to go to a square 315 tire setup it think there are wheels for that close in weight to the cf ones on the R. the also say the porche spec cup r tires last way longer than the ford ones.

    Interesting you find the Gt well built, and yeah they're all heavy.

    From what Im reading unless youtr going Porche cayman Gt4, or the old GS vette its pretty hard to get an out the box car that will work on track. Maybe the veloster, the Gt350 seems to work but its a 65k stang, othrewise its something used and moded. Dont know about the camaro, it certainly can a do a quick lap, but that supercharged motor will it heat soak like the z06 and its heavier than a stang, plus you gotta drive it the rest of the time.
     
    GuyIncognito likes this.
  8. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    10,466
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    On another thought entirely, a good freind says it does not do to have too many of the same type of car, in my case small and quick.
    So I'm still thinking a scat pack widebody, probably not great on track, but then not sure the others are either unless seriously moded and the scat pack may just be all types of on road fun..
     
  9. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    4,976
    Oregon
    Full Name:
    Scotty Ferrari
    I am not going to argue with your considerable experience (as I have only 20 years of HPDE but no racing, and I think that matters.). But have you driven a GT350 on the track? Also, I would think that camber plates would be a required addition for GT350's driven seriously on the track.
     
    Davesvt2000 likes this.
  10. Davesvt2000

    Davesvt2000 Formula Junior

    May 3, 2005
    988
    Central Mass.
    Full Name:
    Dave G.
    Camber plates available as part
    Of the handling package.
    Dealer installed .
     
  11. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior

    Nov 19, 2014
    996
    The Woodlands, Tx
    Full Name:
    Eric R.
    boxerman likes this.
  12. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    16,265
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    lotta issues with any production car you are going to track.

    my spec miata needs a refuel at least once during the day of tracking. otherwise, i dont touch a thing ALL SEASON long.

    too much for me... thinking of doing an arrive and drive setup
     
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,989
    socal

    I think only near track ready is gt3 porsche.
     
  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    10,466
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    Na or NB miata?
     
  15. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    10,466
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    #40 boxerman, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:14 PM
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019 at 4:20 PM

    For drive to the track, Gt3 GT4 and neither is bullet proof but will perform to a high level in etrms of laptimes. A Gs Vettes with some small upgrades. Maybe Gt350, too, it will eat rotors but theyre inexpensive.
    Civic type rs and maitas can also be made to work reasonably as drive to the track cars at much lower level of laptime, but still are fun..

    Older 15 z28s work more or less out the box and s2000s.

    In general you're right, and pretty much any road car is going to be soft on track and most will eat a lot of parts suffer overhatsing and pretty much all except the proches will need different brake components...

    Depends on the level of track work one has in mind. A new GT4 is 100k, but aGt4 clubsport(which is really a track car from porche) is near 190k, theres a reason for that. A maiata is a 30k car and a miata global cup us 60k, theres a reason for that.

    i already have a dedicated track car, that travels on trailer. Looking for something to on ocasion drive to the track for some "casual" lapping fun/seatime, that wont require too much more than fluids, pads and tires, and otherwise is a blast on street and useable on highway and backroad 2-3 days per week.. Thinking its civic type R? plus I can leas it and have no emotional stake in the outcome.

    I do love the idea of the Gt350R even though its 2x the money you cant lease them and I question its road useability, 15 z28 maybe but then youre not buying new.
     
  16. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    16,265
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    nb 2001
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,989
    socal
    type overheat bad! You will not be happy. But for what you are talking about the world is pretty open. My 550 maranello with race pads xp16 front xp10 rear, moton double adjustable shocks and my spring rates, adjustable swaybar endlinks, floating girodisc rotors, and 200TWR tires is fairly capable. I'll even run harness bar and 6pt parachute harness so I can wear my HANS. IMO it is OK setup when you have to exercise your Ferrari or going to the track with Ferrari buds who aren't really track guys and you really are there to BBQ and tell laptime lies. Once you have a real dedicated racecar/trailered trackcar everything else pales. That is why I say the GT3 is about as closes as it gets. I race C5/C6 vettes in a near stock class and the C6GS still needs lots of help to be track ready but it is a good start.

    I'm also a bit of a snob. Anything you can't corner balance (and therefore adjust ride height) is just "not ready". That excludes many cars like the Mustang variants.
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  18. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    10,466
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    I hear thats the one to have.
     
  19. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    10,466
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    Agreed on the corner balance etc point, and I have the dedicated track car, corner balanced Ohlins TTX, sintered pads, slicks, solid mounts, cage, fire, motec ecu, race fuel etc. And I got there because if youre seriously on track everything else is just too much compromise.
    However getting to the track is a full deployment with truck, tires tools trailer etc. Each day on track uses $400 worth of tire, $100 worth of pads/oil, $300 in race gas, maybe $100 in rotor life. plus another $150 in gas wear and tear for the truck. Plus you know its a race car, so theres always going to be shocks to redo, a new seat or something each winter for a few K. Still the car is faster round a given track than any gt3 or road based car short of a Senna, and for the level of performance economic to run. I can also say the car is still has potential the driver is not yet fully exploiting, but thats always the case with a sorted track car.

    Last fall 2x I just put my spare wheels with 888Rs for the elise road car(which has 5 point harness) drove it to the track and had a casual day. it was low impact extra seat time and quite enjoyable for what it was and the slower pace allowed me to think through mistakes and improve myself more for the faster car.

    That got me thinking. Im missing about 5 days on track per season I could probably do but dont because of complexities with the track car in terms of effort for just one day and time available. To get to the track I need to drive my truck the night before to where the car is and load up, which as you know takes a few hrs, wake early am get to the track, come back that night and then spend another 4 hours the next day cleaning up the car getting it off the trailer etc, rinse repeat. Thats worth doing to practice at a local track some days and always worth doing when I travel further afield for 2-3 days.

    However there are some days when I have just a day and would like to wake up drive to the local track 1.5 hrs away, spend a few hours having fun and drive home. Yes I would still have to clean up the car, yes tires are still a 3 day affair(extra wheels pads) and Id still have to do fluids. But each year I get 15 days of my choice at the local track and this year used only 8 (plus another 7 elsewhere). So I'm missing 6-7 days.

    So I was thinking if I could find something that works well on road and is fun on road, for those 2-3 days per week I need to drive on road, something fun that I could drive through the winter(salt), something new that wont need too much, that could also get me 2-4 days of decent tracktime each summer that would be ideal.

    A CTR I can lease and return to sender after 3 years, yeah it will need tires every 4 days and probably pads each year and rotors somewhere but maybe thats it and Ill get a whole lot more enjoyable road driving down in general through winter.

    OR I may find a CTR is really just a kids car, a noisy civic not much fun on highway and unable to sustain more than 3 laps on track(that woudl drive me nuts). Its pretty clear that the 2017 ones had overheat issues. Not sure about the later ones, the net posters all seem to have 17s and magazines are reluctant to report anything.

    Or maybe I just need a spec miata and store it at the local track, and have a road car for road car use.
    For road I drive 2-3x per week, rarely in traffic, its 140 miles round trip 100 highway and 40 miles backroad, been using a honda HRV which works but is souless and life is short.

    Can one new car cover the bases or am I barking up the wrong tree. CTR, Mustang PP2, Challenger scat pack, Gt350 would be the outer edge of the budget.
     
  20. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    16,265
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    i dont know much about them. i was tracking my ferrari like an idiot and wanted to see if i caould really drive/learn

    scca buddy found it for me
     
  21. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    10,466
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    You thinking of selling?
     
  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,989
    socal
    Please do yourself a favor and don't buy a Mustang! You will be severely disappointed. I'm building my 2019 Mustang GT racecar right now. I am so pissed! I am ready to stop my rollcage build and put all the interior back in and just sell this POS and take a giant 5 figure loss. I have found ever increasing number of really badly engineered things on the mustang every time I work on it. The newest thing is some idiot engineered the engine bay with a hole on both sides so when you drop a tool it goes in the hole. It will swallow your sockets, socket wrech, nuts and bolts everything. To get the tools back you have to jack up car, take off inner fender and retrieve your tool. There is so much suckage here and this is just my beginning learning the car. What lameness will I find in the future. I guarantee you there will be new suckage I will learn. Learn from my mistake. Stay away from Ford.


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    16,265
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    no way... everytime i go to the track i like to walk around and check out other peoples toys - setups

    everyone else is working on their cars between sessions

    dont want that to be me
     
  24. Sinovac

    Sinovac Karting

    Aug 25, 2007
    239
    Your posts are hilarious. I look forward to every new installment of “idiots, suckage Mustangs and the genius converting one into a race car.” Keep them coming and try to hang on to your tools.
     
  25. Hocakes

    Hocakes Karting

    Apr 24, 2010
    242
    WV
    Trim a piece of pool noodle down to shape & a little oversized & stuff in opening.
    Sent from my Samsung Note 8 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     

Share This Page