GTB vs GTS

Very good post, Dave. I know exactly what you mean. Originally, I was searching for a 308 GTS QV and test drove many during the course. I had the luxury of driving an '84 GTS, an '85 GTS as well as a fiberglass GTB on the last day of my "quest." Yes, the difference was immediately noticeable. The GTB just drove better. Seeing all three together, I was impressed with the GTB's aesthetics. And so I bought the GTB.

Barry

 

Collect the set!

I have a GTS QV. Will be looking for a GTB and a GT4 to keep it company in the near future...

 

Sounds like a good plan to me!

Dave

 

When it comes to injected 308's and 328's, I don't find the sound all that great, even with Tubi. The carb cars sound better, especially the pre cat years which are all GTB's anyway.

Dave

 

And then a carb'ed V12 makes even better noises, but that's for a different section of Fchat...

 

Here's a picture of mine up at the dairy farm in Spokane where she sat for 15 years in a barn before being shipped down to me in Los Angeles... currently receiving a major and a detail then I will post more photos, but this is the angle that won me over... thanks again to Robb.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I say potato, you say tomato, I say tomada, you say potada

The GTB is a much stronger tauter better handling chassis, case closed, end of story. Its also roomier inside, so us taller folk dont feel so constrained and claustrophobic. But some of you are really reaching trying to say one looks a whole lot better or different. Any 308 is about the prettiest car built in the 20th century, to quibble over the two models is really rather silly. I chose to own a GTB over a GTS, but really either one would be welcome in my garage.

Magnum PI didnt debut until 1980, to claim the show had any impact on GTS production prior to 1981 is nonsense. I dont even believe he drove a carbed 308 in the series, they were already out of production. Someone correct me, but it is my understanding very few of these cars were ordered by anyone other than dealers to have in stock, so what was produced or what was sold was more thier doing than any perception of the market or either models desireability? Is is possible the GTS was standard production and all the GTB were special orders?

 

Yup...,
When you add the qualifier, "Once launched," that works. (Here's the Dino Register tabulation - http://www.dinoregister.com/production.php)

------------------ GT--------------------------------GTS
1968--------------99 (206)
1969--------------51 (206) + 81 (246) = 132
1970-------------272
1971-------------832
1972-------------828---------------------------------280 (First GTS built Feb)
1973-------------471---------------------------------681
1974---------------3---------------------------------316 (Last GT built Feb, last GTS built July.) ("Mostly USA version spyders")

The momentum swing seemingly occurred in the second year of production of the GTS & the fifth year of the 246 model run.

You'd think that someone must have been aware of the 246 market trend. Here are the numbers, though. It looks like the 308 evolved much as the 246 did. Go figure! (Stats from 308GTB REGISTER - www.r-design.net/308/production.htm)

-------------------GTB -------------------------------GTS
1975---------------26
1976--------------644
1977--------------963--------------------------------106
1978--------------415--------------------------------884
1979--------------417-------------------------------1029
1980--------------432-------------------------------1200
(I only covered the carbed cars, but we get the gist. The 'other' Dino/308 doesn't figure in here, either. You know...the ultra-rare GT4/S!)

The GTS didn't go into production until the third year of the 308 model run; it, too, seems to have swung the momentum in its second year.

There must have been a method to their madness, once upon a time.

Maybe some of our historians out there can roll in on this one?

Coop

 

I've always associated "barn find" with older machines. It's hard to imagine such a relatively young steed stabled with the cows. 'gives new meaning to the term!

Wow, nice catch!

Coop

 

Close, but not quite. In the U.S., for 328s, each dealer typically had an allocation of -one- GTB per year, at least during the last year or two. I suspect, but can't confirm, that it was possible for a dealer to order up additional GTBs, if desired, but that likely didn't happen much, as there was just -no- demand for the GTB. Magnum, sunshine dealer locations, U.S. culture, etc., just meant that over here, a 328 was a pop top Red/Tan car, end of story. I'd planned on getting the last year model(ABS, suspension, etc), but didn't realize until almost too late how limited the supply would be. Again, -no- knowledge was available, unless you were already in the know or tight with a dealer.

I ended up getting the very last allocated 1989 328TGB in the U.S.(not the latest serial number, tho), and that was partly luck, as I called every U.S. dealer, all but ONE of whom had already sold their little allocations or returned them to FNA. And, the dealer I dealt with had turned his allocation back to FNA a day or two earlier, due to lack of demand...couple of quick calls, he got it back and I was in business.

If you weren't there in the 80's, it's kinda hard to realize just how limited things were. No internet, no email, not much in the car mags(find me a mag article in the 1980s with a NON-Red/Tan 328GTS, for example), pretty much just Red/Tan stuff on TV and a telephone to GetRdone. I had to mail order a North American dealer booklet just to get the phone numbers of all of the U.S. dealers(!)

I even had a Western States dealer offer me a late 1988GTS in Prugna/Crema(my color choice) at a slight discount, cuz he couldn't find anyone to dump it on...I thought about that one a bit, as it would've been cheaper than what I got, but decided to hold out for my original choice(glad I did, but have wondered whatever happened to that '88 GTS).

 

I have been told that by the time QV's came around, B's were special order in the states. There sure are not many here, especially US cars. I have been told that in 1989, every dealer got a B whether they wanted it or not and thus the oft repeated notion that 42 were shipped to NA that year. All of this is heresay however.

Dave

 

Hey, Big Dave, figured you'd pop in after my post

The one GTB/dealer thing I mentioned came from several of the dealers I spoke with. Most were either not very interested in GTBs or had at least one repeat customer that they figured would be interested in them, so I kinda got the impression it was a non-event to them, just one minor car going into the mix.
I even had a couple dealers ask me why I'd even -want- a GTB, it was that bad

It's certainly possible that they had the option of swapping a B back to FNA for an 'S', but I don't know anything about that. There was, and had been, a LOT of interest in TRs, as these were the cars that had gone WAY up in the speculation game, and the 328s were really late to the game. As memory serves, 328s didn't really start moving until into 1989. The '88GTS I mentioned was offered to me in Dec 1988 or Jan 1989, and being a non-Red/Tan car, it was not sought after at a premium price.

Interestingly, by the time my $$ was changing hands for actual delivery to me(Aug/Sept '89, due to some dealer delays and a relocation/move on my part), 328s had been discovered, and the dealer offered me $10k to turn it down.

 

Very interesting to get info from an actual buyer of the period. I know at least a few '89 B's went to Europe and some have since come back. I have only been able to find evidence of 31 '89 B's in the US, so maybe some are still there. As for red/tan cars, a buddy of mine with a black B were talking about colors one day and looking at the data it appears that the percentage of red B's is even greater than S's. This may well have been caused by dealers being force fed some and therefore ordering the most popular color scheme. I only know of 4 non red 89's. All speculation of course. In early 1990, a number of 89 B's were in the market letter priced 150-175K. A year later, they were in the 80's.

Dave

 

Yeah, force fed, I'd buy Red/Tan too, if I were a dealer. My dealer -did- hit me up for a $5k deposit, said
if I backed out, he'd have trouble with a non-standard color scheme.

I have all the FMLs from that period, but haven't looked at 'em in ages. I do remember seeing some ads with asking prices around $120k, but nothing higher. I always figured if the dealer offered me $10k over list, he was flipping for another $10-20k, but in view of your post, I coulda really been getting the shaft on that deal. Glad I didn't do it. I did peddle a '79GTB(Rubino/Tobacco) for an inflated price, which helped on buying the 328, so it wasn't all bad At least I wasn't the last fool holdin' da bag when the music stopped.

 

This is probably more pursuant to another post but, regarding Dave's (Hardtop's) comments about the sound of a 4-valve vs a carb car, very respectfully I don't get the big deal with the carb cars in this regard. I have been in them and driven them and there is virtually no difference in sound vs. a 4-valve car to my ears. Granted, I have not heard a 76-77 car so I do reserve ALL judgment but until I do but, so far and, again, I don't get all the hoopla about carb cars. It can't just be the carbs because I have yet to hear ANY 308 or 328 that sounds even close to a 355 running all out, and we all know that 355's are FI.

Cordially,

Scott

 

Well, I noticed a big diff right away in engine sound when I went from a '79 GTB to an '89 GTB. On the one hand, the carbs really sound raw (yeah!), but the '89 had more of an F1 zing(for lack of a better word) to it.

Either is quite nice

 

You are right about that. Starting with the 348, compression and power got higher and the systems were designed with sound in mind. If memory serves, 355's and later cars all have bypass valves to improve the fun when you get on them. My 430 is loud enough to make my wife cover her ears, even in coupe form. The carb cars actually benefit quite a bit from intake noise, but you are right none of the 308-328's sound like much with or without a roof.

Dave

 

Couldn't have agreed more, which is why I chucked the Tubi and ended up with the following custom system (which....uh....solved the problem). As for the sound now, as they say in the homeland, "Madonna mia!"
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Find a '76-'77 non-cat car with an Ansa sport and your opinion will change. Undoubtedly the nicest sounding of all the series. They sound racey without sounding uncontrollably racey and sputtery.

 

Not much of a muffler there Carmine. I'll be your neighbors know when you take it out!

DAve

 

during my fun times with my carb cars, i removed the sound deadening from the stock airbox. there was a very profound and noticiable difference in the carbs cars sound with the sound deadening material removed. add a good muffler , and you have early v8 Ferrari heaven.

my QV is a great car, i swear it drives better bieng FI, but it does not sound anything like the 4 carb 308s i had back to back. i even had a magnaflow muffler on my last carb GTB. i had one installed on this QV, and they sound totally different, but in a good way.

i think you guys are on to something with the induction noise coming from the right intake on the carb cars. i detest using a/c, so my pass. side window is always down.

the carb 308's sing, the FI 308's scream. both have a different, but welcome music.

my blue GTB is the ultimate stealth bomber. its cool to notice people "not" see the car, until you are moving again and gone! red red ferraris get too much attention, i like to be gone by the time they realize it was an old 308.

 

i have also really enjoyed reading your posts on these cars, as an owner / buyer when they were new. thanks for adding your thoughts to this thread, they are a great insight .

 

hint hint....i put my old Ansa on ferrariads .... if anybody needs a replacement!

 

This is the silliest thread I've seen in many years. Both are beautiful designs and lead to many that are current.