News

GTC External Oil Coolers

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by enio45, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    936
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    Putting together a clients GTC that came to me in parts. Late car, 10xxx

    It has provisions for the 2 oil coolers that sit in front of the radiator, however only one oil cooler came with the car. The oil cooler i believe is original to the car - from Coventry Radiator in the UK. I was told these were used in the GTC.

    Here is a pic of one - however i need a second one and honestly, not sure how this gets plumbed?

    Any help appreciated...


    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    1,273
    Ed: Was your cooler mounted vertically or horizontally? GTC's originally had no external oil coolers, but they quickly found problems when the cars were run for long distances at high speed on the autostradas. The factory's interim solution was to plumb-in two coolers mounted vertically in parallel in front of the radiator. The final solution was to begin installing radiators that incorporated an oil cooler into the bottom tank (Daytona style). Incidentally, the twin coolers over cooled the oil and on our car, I had to cover one of the coolers to get any temp at all.
     
    Sergio Tavares likes this.
  3. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    936
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    Dyke, when the car arrived alot of it was apart, including the motor etc.

    However, the radiator did NOT have a provision for oil cooling, and wrapped up in a box was this single oil cooler.

    In the inner structure of the front end there are welded bracket extensions top and bottom attached to the X bar that
    looks like oil cooler supports. (i know on earlier cars we have done these brackets are not there at all) . There is one set on each side of the grill opening, @ area of the screened grill inlets. The cooler i believe would mount vertically, based on the length etc.

    Only ONE came with the car, not sure what happen to the other? This car is not going to be driven much, however, my attempt
    is to restore it - "as built". Based on your comments, i could probably get away without any?

    I dont recall on an earlier GTC, but my front timing cover has threaded provisions for the exit and return for oil lines.

    What type of lines/fittings does yours have, mots likely ill replace accordingly. The lines and fittings were also missing.

    Appreciate the thoughts as usua.
     
  4. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    1,273
    Ed: I sold the GTC in 1977, so I cannot go look at it today. I will see if I have any old photos. If you restore the car to "as built" you need the twin coolers.
     
  5. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    936
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    yes agree with "as built" - im wondering, i cannot find any exploded view of the oil coolers or plumbing.

    If they are both the same style as mine are pictured, there is alot of plumbing going on.....behind the grill!
     
  6. Jumprun

    Jumprun Karting

    Feb 7, 2012
    186
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    T. Martinez
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Hi Ed, this diagram may be a clue. My late GTC has the oil cooler in the bottom tank of the radiator, unfortunately there is no parts manual that shows how my car is plumbed, but the 365 2+2 diagram shows something somewhat similar such as a port and standoff pipe in the lower front cover as shown here, item 4 and 7, and item 1 and 2 these go to the cooler in my car, but with a detour to the infamous burp can, or antifoam can, or whatever people call it, it's the silver can next to the oil filter.
    Tom in SoCal
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    375+ likes this.
  7. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    1,273
    Ed,
    The attached photo is of 9671, taken in May 1974 upon arrival from Switzerland. It will at least show you the location of the oil/air separator. Notice the details on the engine. What was then a really nice engine compartment is now totally unacceptable!!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    SCantera and 375+ like this.
  8. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    2,493
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    Looks fine to me and just as one could expect from any few years old used car.
    Definitely gives her an air of being a real car, not a display model.
     
    375+ likes this.
  9. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    936
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    how about those wiper blade arms!! bat wings!
     
  10. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 4, 2005
    597
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Horn locations under that hood are interesting also!
     
  11. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    1,273
    Jim: With the twin oil coolers in front of the water radiator, there is no space for the horns.
     
  12. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    936
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    interesting comment - i have yet to mount the horn motor, but the bracket for it is there.....will have to see what is what

    i did notice that on the oil cooler that i placed in, they sit a bit angled on the top toward the motor , due to the bracket placement and size - seems to be only 1.5 inches bracket on top - and the bottom of the bracket is about 4 inches out toward the grill with 2 holes to mount the cooler.
     
  13. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 4, 2005
    597
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
  14. steve meltzer

    steve meltzer Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2004
    864
    with Enzo 8995
    This has been pretty interesting to me, as the "As Built" guide/document implies, if not states outright, that these cars should have an oil cooler.
    With that in mind, but with no plans to show the car in my stewardship, I've scoured all over the car for this #%^&%^%$ oil cooler.
    My car, #8995, Dec '66 build, has no oil cooler, nor any mounting brackets, nor evidence of these. The car is a Euro delivery car and does seem to be pretty original. steve
     
  15. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    936
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    steve, car 8289 that we restored has no external oil filers.....just the oil canister on top of the motor on the passanger side.

    the car i am restoring - 10041 has evidence of oil coolers because of the brackets under the front nose between the grill and the hood, and i received with the car one oil cooler.....gtc original items from coventry radiator in the UK. there is some conversion period im sure for these cars....dont know what that is, maybe clete can chime in?? - and one item i have not investigated is weather all front timing covers had the provisions for external oil outlets and inlets .........i need to check this on
     
  16. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    936
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    Jim correct you are - the horns are in the center, but where is the motor?? is the motor in the way of the oil coolers or is there enough room for both,,,,,,,give me a day or so, and ill be able to tell you when i relook at the car we are restoring...

    it is all tight in there with these oil coolers - for sure.......

    i wonder, you have oil coolers, then a car with AC /condnesor and then the radiator.....how do u get enough of air flow to cool the radiator???
     
  17. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 4, 2005
    597
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I’ll post Picts from mine sometime today. I have an August ‘66 build, 8833, and I have the oil cooler in the bottom of the radiator. I have no way of knowing (I don’t have build sheets) if my car was born with no oil cooler and had it added early in its life, if it had a single, or dual swapped to one in the radiator, etc. But - my radiator was leaking a couple years ago and Patrick Ottis had it recored. At the time, he thought the radiator and all plumbing looked original.

    My oil outlets and inlets appear to be near the top of the front of the engine - just above the factory a/c compressor. One oil line runs through the burp can to the bottom passenger side of the radiator and one runs to the bottom driver side of the radiator. I also have the “burp” can. I just skimmed through a bunch of engine bay Picts on fantasy junctions website and it’s remarkable how different they appear. It seems some cars had the burp can on the driver side, some have it on passenger side, and some don’t have it at all (late 1967 on?). This seems to correlate by s/n, but I didn’t take notes as I looked so that research could still be done.

    Doesn’t the as built guide also mention some cars may have had a single oil cooler, but they couldn’t find one for pictures? Maybe the one you are restoring is that unicorn...
     
  18. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 4, 2005
    597
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Following the red hoses visible in the same picture, it appears the horn motor is outside the oil cooler in the passenger side corner. It may be partially visible behind the grill screen.
     
  19. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 4, 2005
    597
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    #19 jcavalie, Jun 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
    Caveats apply - I don't have build sheets or know exactly how my car was born. I also don't have 100% records of service history. I'm just providing pictures in case these are helpful. I don't know how close my car is to original; however, those who have seen it and worked on it have opined that it feels pretty original - with some minor things "fixed" over the years - probably when these were just considered "used cars." If I were ever to show it, there are things I'd definitely address (and clean up). But I'm trying to enjoy driving it and not worry so much about keeping appearances perfect.

    View through the grill.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    View down front of radiator. Fan blades and motors visible. Please ignore my overflow tank color - no idea why it is unpainted.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    View down front of radiator again
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    FIM radiator top.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Overview.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Burp can bracket.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Oil lines.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    375+ and readplays like this.
  20. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 4, 2005
    597
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    #20 jcavalie, Jun 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
    375+ and readplays like this.
  21. steve meltzer

    steve meltzer Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2004
    864
    with Enzo 8995
    Most interesting...thanx. Having seen your pictures, I'm pretty certain my car had neither the external cooler, nor the puke/burp can from the factory.
    The "As Built" manual does say that the cars "MAY" have the external cooler(s). My car has no vestiges of a clean air system.

    Some of you maybe following an early, and seemingly original, 330 GTC on BaT (VIN 8821)
    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-ferrari-330-gtc-coupe/#comments
    The pictures don't really focus (sorry 'bout the pun) on the issue of an external cooler, but I don't see one on that car either.

    steve
     
    jcavalie likes this.
  22. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 4, 2005
    597
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Wow. I hadn't seen that auction. Thanks. Will have to go through those picts and have a look. According to barchetta, my car is the 3rd built after that one in the sequence, so it's an equally early car to mine.
     
  23. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    936
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    here are some pics of the inside of the grill area of the 330 im working on. Notice the brackets that support the oil coolers. Several earlier cars i worked on did not have these brackets, so if you have these then there is a good chance the car had the oil coolers.

    Also - here is a pic of where the horn motor would reside, and with the oil cooler installed, there is enough of room for the horn motor as originally positioned in the grill.

    Another point of interest, this car has baffels on each side of the grill separating the air to the fan motors/heater boxes vs the radiator area. These are difficult to fit into the grill, which i suspect some cars left them out. I see the value as it keep the air flow to the rad and also keep the heat from flowing into the fan motors. These baffels are aligned with the "screen" that is installed on the grill - for the separation.

    There is alot of stuff in the front end of these, rad, condenser, fans, oil coolers and the plumbing and the horns and horn motors. how does the motor / radiator ever cool itself with all the hardware in front of it!!

    Hope the pics shed some light on this -

    Steve, i need to study your plumbing pics to see what i need!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. steve meltzer

    steve meltzer Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2004
    864
    with Enzo 8995
    Ed, thanx for those great pictures. i'll have to go back to my car and look once more, but doubt they are there. No ext cooler on #8995. steve
     
  25. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 4, 2005
    597
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Thanks Ed. So - I appear to have the upper brackets for external coolers, but not the lower ones. Recall that my car, today at least, has an internal oil cooler. Where the lower brackets would be, I have 1” stubs on each side sticking from the diagonal brace towards the front, but they are oriented differently than yours and there’s no place to mount anything to them. Also, my horn pump would obstruct the passenger side stub from extending any further.

    I also have the baffles you describe separating the open egg crate part of the grill from the screened ends. They angle outward from the front of the car to their respective sides.

    I could only get a view of all this with my WiFi endoscope (it’s really hard to look in that area with the hood, radiator, horns, a/c condenser, and everything else fitted), so I only got crappy pictures. I’ll check tomorrow and post if they are understandable.

    My horns are mounted on the customary center bracket. I checked around the passenger side and there are no signs of them ever being mounted on the side like the one picture above.
     

Share This Page