GTC won't start - 1 of 3 | FerrariChat

GTC won't start - 1 of 3

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by SCantera, Jun 16, 2022.

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  1. SCantera

    SCantera F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 4, 2004
    5,835
    Living Falls NC
    After a weekend trip to a fun event in Highlands NC my 330 is failing to start. While at the event there were a couple of instances when turning the key to the start position nothing happened. I can hear the fuel pump and the ignition is on. But no cranking. Once I got home and the car sat outside overnight the next morning I could not get it to turn over. It's not a battery issue.

    I think it's one of these 3 causes:

    1. Ignition switch....I have had issues in the past with the ignition switch inside the locking mechanism. Used to be Bosch [used on BMW 2002s] now another manufacturer. Straight-forward replacement once I can access the screws under the dash.

    2. Starter relay. Located under the fuse box if this relay fails the starter solenoid gets no juice.

    3. Starter solenoid. I think this is the least likely of the failures. But as with anything electrical it's an all or nothing symptom.

    I have a friend coming over to help me diagnose. With an ohm meter we can check if the starter relay is getting juice when the key is turned to start. If not then it's the ignition switch. If yes than check downstream to see if the power is reaching the solenoid. If no it's the relay. If yes then it's the solenoid.

    I wish I could get the car up on the lift in my garage to get to the starter and solenoid. However the car is up in front of the house and the garage is a 1/4 mile away at the lower end of our property. If I can get the car pointed down our steep driveway I [hopefully] can use gravity to push start the car. As long as I can keep it rolling downhill I think I can get it running. That would allow me the opportunity to put it on the lift in the garage. It's been a long time since I push-started a car. I am thinking 3rd or 4th gear to keep it moving.

    Wish me luck!!
     
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  2. 330BRC

    330BRC Karting

    May 4, 2007
    135
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Brian Conlan
    My GTC has had instances in the past where it would not crank. Also, simultaneously, the gauges would not respond. I would wiggle the fuse marked ignition and try again. Frequently this would fix it. If this did not work, I would tap the ignition relay switch cover you mentioned above. It appeared that the relay was hanging up. Eventually, I took the ignition relay out and had it serviced/rebuilt. This did not remedy the intermittent ignition switch situation. I then figured out that the bayonet connector under the ignition relay was installed with the connector adjacent to, but not over the mating connector blade. This was causing a poor connection. I assume now it had been this way for a long time. This is very subtle because the connections are difficult to see. If you install the connector just by feel, you can get this situation. I now put a small amount of dielectric grease on the contacts in the fuse box and with the relay switch wire connectors properly seated, the GTC cranking situation has been stable.
    Best of luck.
     
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  3. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran

    Dec 8, 2003
    7,203
    On the Rock
    Full Name:
    James
    "I wish I could get the car up on the lift in my garage to get to the starter and solenoid. However the car is up in front of the house and the garage is a 1/4 mile away at the lower end of our property. If I can get the car pointed down our steep driveway I [hopefully] can use gravity to push start the car. As long as I can keep it rolling downhill I think I can get it running. That would allow me the opportunity to put it on the lift in the garage. It's been a long time since I push-started a car. I am thinking 3rd or 4th gear to keep it moving.
    Wish me luck!!"
    GOOD LUCK!

    :D AND BE CAREFUL !!!
     
  4. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,370
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    There is no starter relay. The power to crank the starter comes directly from the ignition switch (Large white or brown wire, Ter. 50) to fuse 6 on fuse-box, then goes directly to the starter solenoid. If the car doesn't crank, it is either ignition switch, wiring, fuse (#6 Avviamento-Starter 30A/connections), or starter solenoid. Have someone check for power at the trigger wire (ter50) on the solenoid when the key is turned to crank position.
    The large CEAM relay on the engine side of the fusebox is an ignition on relay, providing many of the systems with power (including the ignition system/coils) when the key is turned to the on position.
     
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  5. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
    BANNED Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    11,097
    here are my thoughts, “your garage is a 1/4 mile away!?”. how big is your house?
     
  6. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2004
    1,652
    Gilbert, AZ
    Full Name:
    Ed
    Spend a few min looking over the wiring diagram to get familiar with what Brian is saying......it becomes obvious the path you need to follow. Let us know your findings.....

    Related the fuses, when we finished the red GTC early this yr we had an intermittent issue with turn signal and rear lights. Turns out when we replaced a fuse in the circuit during restoration - the replacement fuse was 1/16 shorter in length and thus, seemingly tight when installed - was not tight enough. It had a little wiggle in the fuse block connection between the tabs. We investigate and found that not all fuse suppliers are equal. Discovery showed varying lengths on the ceramic or plastic and loose fuse material on the ends not properly assembled . Culprits of many strange issues !
     
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  7. 12659

    12659 Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2005
    349
    Seattle WA. USA
    Full Name:
    mark
    Not sure this will help: I had a non-start issue after topping off the fuel tank in a gas station. The folks in the small town were very amused at watch my wife and I at an advanced age pushing my 365 GT 2+2 around the gas Island trying to compression start it. They offered no help from their perch in a two-story trucks.

    Finally I looked under the dash and the thick brown wire to the ignition switch was dangling loose. I re-attached it and the car started.

    We felt like the folks that survived in the movie Deliverance...outta here!
     
  8. SCantera

    SCantera F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 4, 2004
    5,835
    Living Falls NC
    Thanks Brian. I know it's not the ignition switch. And your explanation that the relay is an ignition relay not a starter relay makes sense to the unexperienced like me. To power a solenoid and starter requires a direct and substantial [current] connection.

    I will find a way to check the power at the solenoid before trying to pull the starter. Many thanks.
     
  9. Oengus

    Oengus F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Mine does the same thing…..crazy thing is once I wiggle the gearbox shifter she fires right up?
     

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