Of course Emil. I wouldnt expect any slower from you. But make sure you wearing those "special" shoes!!! sidenote: Hows the new ride???
Emil: I am referring to the official GM press release which details the set-up of the ZR1 that ran the 'ring. Unfortunately, GTR-style smaller motors with AWD will be the future, while big pushrod RWDs will not be. Then again I believe we are seeing the peak of the internal combustion engine and we will probably see it's replacement on the street in the next 50 years. In either case, fuel prices will have a lasting impact on our automotive hobby. I think a fairly strong argument can be made to say that rise of tuners, aftermarket, drifting, modding, etc has a direct correlation to the cheap and readily available oil from the late 90s to now (not to mention readily available credit to unqualified buyers). When I look at the GTR and the ZR1 I see two examples of how far we can push our current technology, and we are about reaching the peak of efficiency (not much more we can squeeze out of this stone). As emissions requirements increase, CAFE standards become stricter, the decline of the dollar continues, and inflation increases, I expect to see hp numbers come down, as well as cars become lighter. In this respect both the ZR1 and GTR represent the final swan song before the boom is lowered and you see manufactures scrambling to rethink what to produce. Of this I am sure: the C7 will not be as powerful as the C6, but will make up for this by being lighter, and the C8 will be something that none of us recognize. For this reason I look at the GTR with puzzlement. It is a fairly heavy car, and really brings little in terms of innovation -- it is clearly a design that was developed in the days of low fuel prices, but now it just seems like an oddity. To a large degree the ZR1 shares this similar label, with the sole exception that it is based on a car already in production. However, it will get the gas guzzler tax. While some may see these as odd arguments, I see them as examples of what the future will NOT be. Sad to say, that neither the ZR1 nor the GTR are going to set the base for a whole new level of performance. Instead they will be the peak performers of hp-wars amongst manufacturers, and will herald in the close of cars that go fast with brute strength and are easily moddable. I see the future as less hp, and more of an emphasis on weight and innovative technology to safe fuel, not to mention they will be much more difficult (both legally and by design) to mod. Just remember, a decade ago if somebody had told me that a hybrid car made by Toyota would not only be practical, readily available, and a hip social status icon -- I would've laughed and shook my head. Besides, the GTR is a bloated pig only lusted after by sexual deviants who probably play with Barbie dolls
Lotus of Greenwich will be back under new ownership. It will take a little time, though It's where I bought my Elise; loved that place and all the guys there. In the interim, I was always treated well at Manhattan Motorcars of the Hamptons. I would go there if you're interested.
I have a 92 Skyline, r32 , it does not have all wheel drive , mine is rear wheel drive , it handles like a Go-Kart,so did my Ferrari GT4, but the Skyline has a ton of power, the trick is getting traction,I like Corvettes too , but this Skyline fears no Corvette or any other car, The 92 I have is a total Animal, If the new GTR is better.... Than HOLY COW , it must be hard to imagine, but then again my Skyline is worked with gears in the rear, so its hard to tell what a Stock Skyline would be like , and for all you playstation fans , my N.Y. legal Skyline is for sale at $$ 18,000 bucks , A giveaway to get money up for the 86 TR I want to Buy.
Does it bother anybody else that gm makes a supercar to compete with the world's best, but they are the only ones without a paddle-shift tranny = faster shifting tranny. If the zr1 is really hitting the claimed numbers with a true manual shift, imagine what it could do with 1/10 second gear changes. The GTR is like the 911 turbo. Your grandma could run incredible performance numbers in it.
I am taking this slightly out of context, but it is precisely this strategy that has bode well for Nissan/Datsun. Consider the original 240Z - no earth shattering technology, but as a packaged solution, it was tough to beat. It was cheap, could keep with a 911 (which was way more expensive) and it was reliable. Sounds alot like the GT-R - it's relatively cheap, it's insanely quick, and it's going to be reliable. Nissan are masters at taking every day technology and packaging them well.
The laws of physics tell me otherwise. Is it heavy? Yep. Did it lap the ring in 7:29? Yep. Gotta be a little something special to make that happen. Lots of cars have a similar power-to-weight ratio. Not lots of car that can best that number...
Little in terms of innovation... I guess every car has a computer system like this. Oh and don't look at the GTR in puzzlement... according to the laws of physics, bumblebee's shouldn't be able to fly. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Actually most cars do have sensors that measure many of those things, however most manufacturers havent been bothered to display all sensor readings. It's a gimmic that Nissan uses to attract the Playstation generation nothing more nothing less. Most other manufacturers dont want any of those interior distractions and have instead spent their money on other important stuff like weight reduction. The Nissan is the ugly duckling in this group, it is the heaviest, lowest power, has the worst brakes, has the worst tyres, and has the worst torque. The Corvette ZR1 is around equal power to the Zonda, far more torque, best brakes, and widest tires. Zonda F Clubsport Power: 649.9ps @ 6200rpm Torque: 575 ftlb @ 4000rpm Weight: 2712 lbs Tyres: PS2 255 (F), PS2 335 (R) Brake: Carbon Ceramic 380(F), 335 (R) Corvette ZR1 Power: 638 SAE hp @ 6500rpm Torque: 604 ftlb @ 3800rpm Weight: 3324 lbs Tyres: PS2 285 (F), PS2 335 (R) Brake: Carbon Ceramic 393.7 (F), 381 (R) Porsche Carrera GT Power: 605 hp @ 8000rpm Torque: 437 ftlb @ 5750rpm Weight: 3043 lbs Tyres: PS2 265 (F), PS2 335 (R) Brake: Carbon Ceramic 380 (F), 380 (R) Porsche 911 GT2 Power: 530 hp @ 6500rpm Torque: 501 ftlb @ 4500rpm Weight: 3175 lbs Tyres: PSC 235 (F), PS2 325 (R) Brake: Carbon Ceramic 380 (F), 340 (R) Nissan GTR Power: 480 hp @ 6400rpm Torque: 430 ftlb @ 5200rpm Weight: 3850 lbs Tyres: Bridgestone RE070A 255 (F), 285(R) Brake: 380 (F), 380 (R) Professional drivers and magazine testers have had a hard time, their numbers have been all over the place from 11.5 to 12.8, this shouldnt be especially with a DSG auto transmission, 4WD and LC.
Sorry but those 2 seem like their brakes are fairly the same. So I don't think its safe to say the GTR has the worst brakes. "Actually most cars do have sensors that measure many of those things, however most manufacturers havent been bothered to display all sensor readings. It's a gimmic that Nissan uses to attract the Playstation generation nothing more nothing less. Most other manufacturers dont want any of those interior distractions and have instead spent their money on other important stuff like weight reduction." Yes most cars have these sensors, but what happens if one of the sensors picks up a problem? How does the driver become aware? A simple check engine light? A check engine light can be thrown on from not shutting your gas cap properly. So when do you know when to actually worry about it? When it starts blinking repeatedly and you've already thrown a piston through the top of your motor? I'd much rather prefer having all the data sit in front of me so that I could watch what my car is doing. If anyone should have this display, it should be GM. How many times has GM created a factory forced induction vehicle? I can't remember many, if any times at all. So how do we know they are going to get it right on the first shot? I like the ZR1, don't take me wrong, it seems like an amazing car. But with GM's track record on reliability I don't think they should look past displaying sensor data, especially when you are pushing the limits of a street driven vehicle. Many of these "supercars" are borderline race cars. If you've ever looked inside of a race car, they have gauges displaying every bit of data you could think of. Why? Because things go wrong and you need to see what went wrong. Its a 600+HP car, things are going to break when you put that much strain on an engine, especially when its designed by GM. They also did not spend lots of money on weight reduction, if I remember correctly the most GM did with weight reduction was change certain parts of the car into Carbon fiber... doesn't take much research and development to change the front spoiler into a carbon fiber front spoiler. The GTR is also undergoing weight reduction with the GTR Spec V, which is going to have similar pieces as the ZR1 molded in carbon fiber.
The Nissan GTR is the only one there not fitted with carbon ceramic brakes, there is a very good reason why CC brakes are far more expensive than normal brakes. Like previous gadget laden Nissans these things do brake and when they do it usually keeps chucking random codes at you. Keeping things simple is the best solution, for example changing the wheels in the GTR would give you a code and from what ive been told will go into safety mode, this wont happen in the ZR1. You obviously dont know much about the Chevy engines do you?, there is a reason why people love these engines and why it has gone into many of todays hyper performance machines like the SSC and Ultima GTR. GM's level of engine reliability and tolerance is one of the best in the business, im sure that this particular engine can withstand 1000hp with minimal changes. Nissan on the other hand is already borderline this might be one of the reason why Nissan spent so much money on an anti modification computer. GM is very much respected in the high hp and reliability scene and have even created the LSx engine designed to handle 2500hp (closely related to the LS9). Trust me GM did do its research and made use of their racing teams/data etc. GM wasnt just about trying to loose weight, they wanted a balanced car. The ZR1 has many CF and other lightweight components on the front in order to offset the weight of the supercharger. GM has continued to use heavier materials in the rear including changing the rear mufflers from lightweight aluminum into steel in order to have a car as close to 50:50 weight distribution. The GTR and even the Porsche is no where near as evenly distributed as the ZR1.
2 points, Reading this on a Ferrari board I chuckled because if corvettes had the same reliability issues as ferraris...there would be class action lawsuits and GM would discontinue the line. Secondly race cars have gauges because of where and how they are driven, and how aggressively set up the cars are. Street cars dont really need gauges because they dont see the same conditions and are de-tuned well below a level where everything needs to be manually monitored. For example Cadillac was running the ls6 motor in the speed GT series in the CTS-V program spinning it to 7800 rpm with a bigger cam. Where in street production trim the same motor runs significantly less timing, with a smaller cam and a redline of 6000-6500. But after all this is the internet everyone is allowed to have their own wrong opinions.
Hmm, really? Let's see, they have put Turbo's and Superchargers in plenty of cars (they even turbo'ed a V8). Buick, Pontiac, and Olds used the supercharged 3800 in most of their sedans and coupes. They also offer it currently in the Cobalt SS. GM Powertrain is nothing to sneeze at. They have been using some of the most progressive and innovative technology for quite some time. Everything from Displacement on Demand (DoD) to full-size Hybrid Trucks. The GTR just looks chintzy and something that was just cobbled together from the Nissan parts bin. It is neither cheap nor impressive, and I really doubt the numbers posted for it. Nonetheless, kudos to Nissan for generating such interest in a has-been car.
All I can possibly say now is that the Nissan is nothing to look past. I've run into 2-3 people who sound like a really long GM commercial and are willing to swear by GM and defend the ZR1. But to clear a couple of things up... I do know about the LS series motors and the V8's that GM has. In fact I worked with a dirt modified team for a little bit working on their built LS1. And yes I know how everyone loves it and drops it into every car from classic Datsun's to hotrods. Its a great motor and it was a simple joke when I said it was designed by GM. If GM has done anything right it is the V8 motor. Other than that I am not a GM fan. In response to robiferreti, I don't own a Ferrari so I wouldn't know to much about the reliability issues of Ferrari's. I'm on this site because I hope to one day own a Ferrari. But in response to your not needing gauges. Granted race cars are driven to hell, but when you create a 620 HP car, how do you think people are going to drive this car? Your designing a supercar which is going to get beat on and which owners are going to push the car to the limit. As I said when you make a car like this, you are pushing the limits of a street driven vehicle. If I were an owner of such car, I would want a way to monitor things. Maybe this is just me being incredibly anal, but things break. I'd much rather have a warning rather than a nice loud bang. Granted I think the GTR computer system is a little outlandish and over the top, it is still informative. "GM Powertrain is nothing to sneeze at. They have been using some of the most progressive and innovative technology for quite some time." This innovative technology must be the same thinking they use to run coolant through the belt tensioner of certain cars. I've worked in a shop for a few years now and continue to do so. I have guys in my shop who have worked at GM and even they say it that GM is not known for their reliability or innovative technology. If you really want to get down and dirty and look at the cars GM created, than we can find more reliability issues. In fact just a recent one was a transmission on a Pontiac Grand Prix. Well make that 2. Costing the 2 people I know about 2-3K a piece to replace the transmissions. I know you can find reliability issues with every car maker, but certain auto manufacturers have more than others. Also I wouldn't consider the Cobalt SS a supercharged car... you may as well throw a hamster on a wheel and you'll pump out more power than that supercharger puts out. http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-08/04-29-08page-Jay-Leno-drives-the-2009-Nissan-GT-R.htm ^ This guy knows a little bit about cars, and although he does not like the electronics, he does however love the car. This discussion has gone a little to far, due to the fact no matter what anyone says, the 3 of you do not really like the GTR and feel the ZR1 is superior. As I said, I like the ZR1 and I like the GTR. I like gauges because I've seen even factory tuned vehicles go boom. So in conclusion, the GTR is nothing to Sneeze at.
Also when I refer to GM, I am referring to all of GM, not just the V8 motors and the ZR1 or other Corvette's.
Merceedes and Bentley are 2 examples of companys with 600+ hp forced induction cars from the factory with no gauges... GT3 is designed as a race car...no special gauges GT2 also designed as a race car no special gauges the list goes on. cars off the showroom floor are designed with a high margin of safety and quite far from the limits of the components, so that things don't have to be monitored and break often.
I know, and that would drive me nuts. I've seen multiple factory tuned cars have troubles with the turbo and the only warning they gave the driver, was a check engine light. My favorite was a VW with a bad wastegate and it threw a code for a wastegate. A bad wastegate could cause the turbo to put to much air into the engine causing the engine to run lean and kaboom. Now if the car had a boost gauge and you were pushing 5-6lbs of boost, and one day it spiked to 12lbs. You could tell something was wrong.
The PCM can display logged lap times and do basic analysis. And since it has limited telemetry, I run this to supplement it's lack of data logging and performance analysis. Image Unavailable, Please Login
