Guess I'm a real Ferrari owner now - found my first fuel leak ; ) | FerrariChat

Guess I'm a real Ferrari owner now - found my first fuel leak ; )

Discussion in '308/328' started by singletrack, Sep 24, 2013.

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  1. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    The very common point of failure (based on a search) - the breather hoses on the top of the passenger fuel tank in my 78 GTS. There are 3 nipples coming out that are connected to hard lines with rubber hoses. The lowest one is split totally and the other two are so hard, I expect them to break any second. Appears it was leaking in high-g turns and/or when the tanks are full. I feel fortunate to have found it on inspection and not by burning my ass up.

    Now to tear apart the back and swap the "forgotten" hoses back by the tanks. Looks like the PO did a good job coughing up the change for new lines at the carbs, but the tanks appear to have been partially neglected - at least the vapor lines. Kind of concerning that he would have a motor-out service with full head work and not get those out. I'm wondering about the famous filler hose as well.

    Anyway, didn't catch fire and I have another project...could be a lot worse : )

    Sent SRI an email for a quote on hoses.

    Gotta keep your hose in check! ; )
     
  2. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,447
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    As you know, this really isn't a problem unique to Ferrari.

    David's kit is top of the line. You will not find a better fuel line upgrade kit.
     
  3. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2012
    3,150
    SanFrancisco BayArea
    Full Name:
    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    When I ordered mine, he mentioned he would consider making an upper fuel hose kit if enough people expressed interest.
     
  4. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

    Nov 25, 2010
    11,074
    LA
    Full Name:
    Todd
    I'm replacing every hose in my '85.
     
  5. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Nah - not a knock on the brand...rubber has a limited life. Comes with every classic car which has areas that have been overlooked. This was not found in PPI, so probably just burst recently.

    I found some pics of the full SRI kit for the GT4 and it looked great! Will be great to have more confidence in the car having sorted all the fuel.
     
  6. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Interesting. I saw one pic of a kit for the GT4 (Robert's) that had all the upper hoses as well in standard fuel lines. Only a few special hoses were the custom material.

    I'm ok with the orange in non-visible places, but don't like it around the carbs, etc. Upper kit would need to be black for me. Would be nice to have an option of not having any printing on it either, or very little printing.
     
  7. AZDoug

    AZDoug Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2009
    1,606
    Along the Verde , AZ
    Full Name:
    Doug
    Replace very hose with SAE R30J9 fuel line. Not the typical R30J7 stuff fuel line, which is OK for vapor use, but not totally.

    The fuel injection hose is J9. It is expensive.

    Look for J9 printed on the hose. If you don't see SAE R30J9, don't buy it.

    Doug
     
  8. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Appreciate the info very much.

    Coming from modern cars, I know next to nothing about fuel lines...just has never been a project/focus area for me.
     
  9. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    It's good you found the leak before you had a real problem.
     
  10. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    57,977
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
    Full Name:
    Mark W.R.
    Do NOT forget all the injector lines as well. I found several that were about to leak that a visual inplace inspection did NOT could NOT catch.

    Verell has the kits.
     
  11. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

    Nov 25, 2010
    11,074
    LA
    Full Name:
    Todd
    I'm also adding modern FI and ignition with the supercharger.
     
  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,238
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Except it's J30R9

    Fuel Transfer Hose (SAE J30R2),
    Fuel Feed/Transfer Hoses (SAE J30 R6,7,8),
    Fuel Injection Hose (SAE J30R9), ****
    In-Tank low pressure Fuel Hose (SAE J30R10),
    Low Permeation Fuel Fill and Vent (Vapor) Hose (SAE J30R11),
    Low Permeation Fuel Fill and Return Hose (SAE J30R12),
    Radiator Hose (SAE J20R4),
    Brake Hose (SAE J1401),
    Power Steering Hose (SAE J2050),
    AC Hose (SAE J51-SAE J 2064),
    Windshield washer Hose (SAE J1037),
    Transmission Fluid Hose (SAE J2050),
    Heater Hose (SAE J20R3),
    Oil Hose (SAE J30R2-5)

    http://artexon.com/uploads/Hoses_Technical_Data__Eng_.pdf

    No need for anything exotic.
     
  13. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jun 2, 2004
    2,669
    Essex, UK
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    Andy M
    I don't understand the enthusiasm for replacing old hoses with very expensive 'specialist hoses'

    I replaced my all fuel hoses last year (the location of the leak that triggered the replacement would horrify the regulars here). My hoses appear to have been original (i.e. 30 years old), so no surprise that they started to rot.

    I replaced on a like for like basis (i.e. rubber with a cloth covering), ordered over the web. The only 'specialist' item was the hose between the filler cap and the tank - this I got from Superformance.

    Using standard fuel hoses meant that this was a very cheap job to perform. I will replace them again in maybe 10 years time.
     
  14. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

    Nov 25, 2010
    11,074
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    Todd
    Do you have to worry about ethanol in your gas???
     
  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,238
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky

    All the new hoses on the market today are fine for ethanol. This constant rap about ethanol and hoses is another FChat/internet myth. Millions of cars are produced every day and are running fine using E10 and E15 ethonal and nothing is falling off or rotting. You have to get up to 20% ethanol before you have to worry about older hoses rotting from ethanol. Newer hoses are generally fine. And let's not forget about the many flex fuel vehicles being manufactured which can run on E85. Ask yourself what they are using for hoses.

    Quote from GoodYear:

    For Hot Rod 2011 article on fuel hoses:

    If you feel you must have a boutique brand then go for it. Noting wrong with them but it's totally unnecessary.
     
  16. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

    Nov 25, 2010
    11,074
    LA
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    Todd
    Of course new cars are ethanol tolerant, but when buying hoses for an old car you need to make sure they are tolerant. When it comes to the many fuel hoses on the 308 the last thing I'm going to worry about is a few bucks; and I asked that question to man posting from the UK.
     
  17. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
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    Jun 2, 2004
    2,669
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    Andy M
    All new hoses produced for fuel use will be ethanol tolerant, whether they go on a new car or an old car won't make any difference
     
  18. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,238
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    This entire ethanol thing has been carried to extremes by an industry trying to make a buck off it using scare tactics. Today you read about how bad ethanol gas is because it absorbs moisture out of the air (myth) leading to separation of the ethanol form the gas and this leaves an alcohol/water mixture in the bottom of your tank with all types of related problems. The real problem is, just as it was in the past, condensation forming on the walls of partially filled gas tanks and that water being absorbed by the alcohol leading to separation. But, this doesn't happen that much any more because fuel system are sealed these days. And, if you go back in history before E10 fuel, when gas was 100% gas, we used to add Dry Gas to the tank to prevent the accumulation of water from condensation (or other sources) at the bottom of the fuel tank. And what is Dry Gas? Alcohol! They still make it today. Add a little Dry Gas to the tank and the alcohol would absorb the water and go into solution with the gas. So, back in the day we added alcohol to pure gas to keep water form accumulating in the fuel tank. Today we blame the alcohol in E10 as the cause of water in the tank. It's all BS aimed to create a problem that doesn't exist so someone can profit of fixing it.

    As I have posted here more than once before, in 50 years of motoring I have never added ant type of fuel stabilizer to any vehicle or other internal combustion driven device while stored and I have never had a problem with any engine starting right up when taken out of storage.
     
  19. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

    Nov 25, 2010
    11,074
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    Todd
    Really?



    I have two friends that work on and restore old cars, you should hear the horror stories of what ethanol is doing to old rubber. So like I said, make sure it is a new hose and not NOS or an old reel sitting in the back of the parts store.
     
  20. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

    Nov 25, 2010
    11,074
    LA
    Full Name:
    Todd
    No one is talking about water, rust, or additives in this thread.
     

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