gutting doors on 78 308 ? | FerrariChat
Buy

gutting doors on 78 308 ?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Helmut, Mar 4, 2006.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #1 Helmut, Mar 4, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was wondering if you guys know how to replace the rivets and to make them look as nice as the originals. I am completely taking the doors apart on my 78 308 to have them acid dipped and it turns out that the trim along the top edge of the door is riveted to the door. I would like to buy new trim and put it in. I was looking for the part number on the Ferrari UK site but they don't show the exact numbers.
    Am I out of luck on replacing those trim pieces? I attached a picture to clarify what parts I am talking about.

    Thanks,
    Helmut
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
    Centreville, Virgini
    Full Name:
    Gianluca Chegai
    #2 Gianluca, Mar 4, 2006
    Simply, drill them out. Use a slightly larger drill bit and, gently drill until the head pops out. With a drift you can, then, push them out.
    If I remeber correctly, they are countersunk head rivets, 3/32". Unfortunately, I have not found the exact replacement but the regular head (slightly crowned) has worked fine, since it is so small.
    By the way, I also bought the new felt strips from JC Whitney. It has a metal edge instead of the fabric edge but is still looks nice. Obviously, not concours.
    The only bummer, is that you need to buy 2 lenghts to do both door with a lot of waste on each lenght.
     
  3. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,332
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    #3 smg2, Mar 5, 2006
    are you sure its rivited to the door? on my mondial and every other car i have ever owned those two peices are rivited to each other and use plastic retaining clips to hold it to the standing seam on the door. takes a bit of effort to pull off but they do come off.
     
  4. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #4 Helmut, Mar 5, 2006
    Thats interesting, I haven't really pulled on them yet but I was wondering wether or not they might be just connected with clips.

    Thanks for the input, I will try again tomorrow.

    Helmut
     
  5. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #5 Helmut, Mar 5, 2006
    That has worked in the past usually but for some reason the ones in the 308 won't pop out even after the head has been drilled out. JC Whitney ... where are they located? I would love to get some felt strips as mine are ugly by now. Are the original ones still available by the way?

    Thanks,
    Helmut
     
  6. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    18,066
    Savannah
    #6 thecarreaper, Mar 5, 2006
    if you can post detailed pics of the rivets i will cross ref them at work and see if i can get a replacement and a part number for you . i work on jet aircraft and have shot millions of rivets!!! :) its best to drill the rivet head with the next UNDERSIZE drill bit and pop the head off with a punch or awl. if you use the next size up and go through , you are screwed and have to get bigger rivets, different countersinks and sometimes different tools to install / shoot the next size up.


    best. Michael
     
  7. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    #7 Steve King, Mar 5, 2006
    Mine are attached to the fiberglass door panel. I just took off my panels to redye the leather. They are rivited on to the door panels. They slide over the top of the door lip and hold the panel to the door. They are cut out near the a pillar window . I'm looking for the same pieces.
     
  8. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    #8 Steve King, Mar 5, 2006
    OK correction you have 2 pices , 1 on the inside which is attached to the door panel and the ones on the outside which is rivited to the door. Sorry I had to go and check.
     
  9. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Richard Ham
    #9 ham308, Mar 5, 2006
    After a bare body respray by a previous owner these are the only bits of trim on my car that don't look as if they were replaced. I always thought it was a cunning trick not to slow the windows down even further, but maybe it was because it's just plain hard to get replacements.

    I'm therefore also interested to know how you get on replacing and sourcing these bits.

    good luck
     
  10. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
    Centreville, Virgini
    Full Name:
    Gianluca Chegai
    #10 Gianluca, Mar 5, 2006
    That is true also for my 81' GTSi. It has been a while and my senior moment are getting longer and longer...
    They indeed attach to the fiberglass door panel. On my car, however I have a rubbery plastic on the outside. I have not investigate this because when I replaced the felt strip, I was redoing the interior leather.
    The rivets are the ones that have the (usually) steel mandrel and get set with an inexpensive tool. The smallest of these rivets is 3/32" and it appears to be the size used on the felt strips but the head is called "countersunk". Basically is what, on a screw, is called a flat head.
    The ubiquitous "dome" head, however, is small enough that it will not pose any problems.

    http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/showCustom-0/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2008570/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2008570/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=weather%20strip%20felt

    The one I bought is # 35
     
  11. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
    Centreville, Virgini
    Full Name:
    Gianluca Chegai
    #11 Gianluca, Mar 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  12. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
    Centreville, Virgini
    Full Name:
    Gianluca Chegai
    #12 Gianluca, Mar 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    #13 pma1010, Mar 5, 2006
    Rutlands or FPE (is Lyle T still around?) carries the trim pieces. Buy it in a roll from memory.
    Philip
     
  14. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jun 2, 2004
    2,667
    Essex, UK
    Full Name:
    Andy M
    #14 Andy 308GTB, Mar 5, 2006
    I got these felt strips from Ferrari UK a few years ago. I have yet to attach them to the door but on my car they are rivetted.
    The strips & the invoice are sitting in the garage but its way too cold to go out there now!
    If you have had no joy with regard to the part number by this time tomorrow I will get the invoice & post the part number.
     
  15. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,332
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    #15 smg2, Mar 5, 2006
    wow.. learned something new here today. as much as the clipped ones are a pain and are a one time use, the rivieted ones would not be something i would enjoy.
     
  16. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #16 Helmut, Mar 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have today found my peace with rivets. They are actually not so bad compared to a mercedes clips nightmare for example.

    If somebody has a sugestion on what he best brand rivet press is (or whatever it may be called), please let me know.

    I got everything off and my doors are ready for a Acid bath. Luckily there is no rust on the doors as far as I can see at this stage of the game. But there is this strange kind of coating which I have noticed on other parts of the car before, it looks like a rust protection of some sort but over the years it cracked all over, which means water could get in there which wouldn't be good. I attached a pic of it. The acid dipping is going to get all that out.

    I also took out the Windshield today (it was cracked) and realised that I would never attempt to do that on a noncracked windshield as it is almost impossible to remove it without cracking it. I finally figured out how the interior trim comes off and am now working on getting the dash out, which is also quite tricky in a way. Its hilarious to see those little nuts and bolts/ screws they use, certainly very unlike a mercedes.

    I put up a picture of a rubber piece that sits on the top of the Window frame parts, I wonder if those can also be found possibly at Ferrari UK etc.

    Thanks very much for the input!

    Helmut
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    #17 Mark 328, Mar 5, 2006
    Helmut:
    I don't want to pry into your business, but I can't understand why you are acid dipping the doors? Aren't you worried about the acid getting caught in the seams? In aerospace we do not treat parts with chemicals when there is a possibility of some of the chemical remaining in a crevice.
    Couldn't you just strip the outside with paint stripper and repaint?

    Mark
     
  18. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #18 Helmut, Mar 6, 2006
    Hi Mark,

    I have debating that issue for a while now and it appears that here on the forum your point is being raised frequently but when I speak to people who are rebuilding high end cars on a regular basis they say that they have never had any such problems.
    The acid dip place supposedly puts the doors into a kind of neutralising liquid after the acid dip which will assure that no harm can be done to paintwork in the future.

    I just feel that getting the inside of the doors cleaned and reprimed is key in this process which I can't do otherwise.

    I wouldn't want to dip the entire car for reasons like you mention as well as being worried about fillers disappearing etc.

    Thanks for rasing the point.

    Helmut
     
  19. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    18,066
    Savannah
    #19 thecarreaper, Mar 6, 2006
    pics posted look like GAR501AC3-7 blind fastners. drill size is number 40, which is where the #3 in the part number comes from. the -7 is the grip length in 1/16 of an inch measurements. Huck Corp. and any other Aerospace fastner suppliers should have these, heck i think WALMART has a Huck fastner assortment they sell in the automotive area.
     
  20. 4Webers

    4Webers Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2003
    276
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Darrell
    #20 4Webers, Mar 6, 2006
    Ferrari UK has those rubber pieces, at least they did two years ago when I bought one.
     
  21. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #21 Helmut, Mar 6, 2006
    Thanks very much for the advice; We don't have Walmart here in Hollywood but I suppose Home Depot will be a good start to look.

    4 Webers... you wouldn't have a part number by any chance? I will call them and I am sure they can look it up but in case you have it laying around in open view I would appreciate it. Hopefully they still have some left.

    Thanks,
    Helmut
     
  22. 4Webers

    4Webers Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2003
    276
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Darrell
    #22 4Webers, Mar 6, 2006
    P/N 60265808 for the right side, don't know if the left side is a different # or not, but I expect that it is.

    I bought a decent and cheap rivet tool and rivets at Northern Tools. Don't remember the brand.
     
  23. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #23 Helmut, Mar 6, 2006

    Very cool, thanks very much!

    Helmut
     
  24. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jun 2, 2004
    2,667
    Essex, UK
    Full Name:
    Andy M
    #24 Andy 308GTB, Mar 13, 2006
    At the risk of repeating myself...
    F361000160 Ferrari UK (GBP 8.20 each in 2002)
     
  25. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #25 Helmut, Mar 13, 2006
    I checked with keith at Ferrari UK and they still have 'em. I am currently putting together a big list of parts I need considering my 308 is almost completely apart.

    Thanks,
    Helmut
     

Share This Page